The Crush Workout: a Q&A Overview
Q: What is a crush workout?
Crush is an advanced high-intensity VO2 bike interval workout. “Crush” refers to pushing it as hard as possible, likely way beyond what you’re used to. Think of the final sprint in a Tour de France stage. That’s the crush intensity you want
The intervals should be short. I suggest starting with 30-second intervals, and building to 60-second intervals towards the end of the OutSeason. You can add 2-minute intervals during the Get Faster program or as part of your main race build phase
Q: How difficult should the “crush” be?
For 30-second crush intervals, target a power number between 1.5x and 2.0x your current FTP. So as an example, if your FTP is 200, push 300 watts and see how that feels. Try to push the power higher each session. See if you can build the crush to 400 watts over weeks
For 60-second intervals, target a power number between 1.2x and 1.6x current FTP
Q: How many intervals should I plan to do?
Think of the workout in terms of combined interval time, targeting no more than 10 minutes of time at max power. So, for 30” Crush sets, getting to 20 repetitions is plenty. But it’s critical to start with only 4-8 repetitions so your body can adapt to the intensity, and to also figure out the correct power to push
Compared to the EN 30/30 workouts, you’ll do fewer intervals. However, since the intensity is so much higher you’ll likely be generating the same or a slightly higher TSS score
Q: What’s the recovery interval like?
The crush recovery is vastly different from a typical VO2 workout interval. It’s based on heart-rate recovery rather than time. Recover to high Zone 1 or low Zone 2 heart rate. For me that’s between 128-134 bpm. During the recovery, push only the power that is comfortable to get to recovery. Initially, this should be 0.5x FTP. For example, if your FTP is 200 then the recovery power should be no more than 100 watts
You’ll find that recovery for 30-second intervals is typically 1-4 minutes; recovery for 60-second intervals is 2-6 minutes. The first couple of intervals will have a fairly quick recovery. But as the workout progresses, expect recovery to take longer and longer. That’s okay. The key to these workouts is getting full recovery so you have full power for the next interval
Q: Do these replace the typical EN 30/30 workouts?
Crush workouts are complementary to the OutSeason 30/30 workouts. The 30/30 serves a very specific purpose and has tremendous value, so don’t drop it altogether. I’d recommend swapping the 30/30 for a Crush workout on occasion. You’ll find that it’s tough to Crush every week in the OutSeason. If your body is dragging and legs are tired, do the 30/30’s. If you’re feeling good, try the Crush
Q: What about adding Z3 work as part of this WKO?
The 30/30 workouts have an option to add Zone 3 time if you feel like pushing harder. You won’t need this with the Crush workout. After you’ve done a couple of Crush workouts, compare the TSS score with the 30/30 workout. There’s plenty of intensity from Crush
Q: How should I get started?
Start with achievable numbers, both for interval count and target power. For your first workout, I would suggest trying for six (6) 30-second crush sets at 1.7x FTP. See how that feels and adjust as needed. The workout could look something like this:
Warm-Up (15-20 minutes):
- 5 minutes easy spinning;
- Then 3-4 30” spin-ups, increasing rpm each time, with 45” recovery (e.g. 1st at 105 rpm, 2nd at 110 rpm, 3rd at 115 rpm, 4th at 120 rpm)
- Then 3-4 30” power-ups; building power with each one, again with 45” recovery
Main Set:
- 4-10 30-second Crush intervals
- Full recovery to low Zone 2 HR between intervals
- (If doing 10 intervals, split it as 5 and 5 with a 5’ easy spin between the two sets)
Warm-Down:
- 3-10 minutes of easy spinning
- Then another set of 30” spin-ups, again building rpm with each one; 45” recovery
- Another 3-5 minutes of easy spinning
Q: Can we do this WKO on Zwift?
Yes, Zwift works quite well for this workout. I don’t recommend using ERG mode, as power tends to vary significantly from session to session, and even interval to interval. Just get on a course in standard ride mode. It’s cool to watch your watts/kg spike during the interval!
Q: How do I know if I’m doing them correctly?
If you feel like puking after about the 5th interval, then you’re probably doing them correctly. Seriously, these hurt. Like other interval workouts, target consistent power across each interval. And yes, it’s okay to stand on the pedals in order to finish an interval
Comments
A few things to note:
I typically find the Vo2 work easier than say the FTP work particularly the longer intervals. 30/30's in the past I did not really like as they were too short even with my limited fitness coming in to several OS', thus I instituted a 1/1 and I even liked the longer intervals of years past 1.5/1.5 and 2/2 were tough. My problem has been fitness level coming in so the high intensity can bury me quickly and I typically have a lot of room between my ceiling and roof.
Week 1 30/20's below at 1.25-1.26 for 18 intervals where my HR maxed out at 167 on the 18th interval. A recent zwift race in December prior to the OS had me maxed out at 181 HR (220 watts) which I would say is within a few beats of my max.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1349496181
1) Prior to instituting these crush workouts last season would you consider your ceiling bumping in to your roof? Any analytics on this 5' test versus 20', or other training data.
2) Are these crush intervals pushing your HR near maximal effort or more of a very hard level? The graph above has 170 as the max and you hit this in the early intervals. My HR is typically very sticky in the mid 160's, maybe this is just a function of not working hard enough.
3) To the best of your recollection what was the recovery like from this session particularly early on when your body was more shocked by the work levels.
Perhaps this is something I'll institute on the back end of the OS or as you suggest when feeling good after week 5's test. For now I'll focus on the FTP work on the front end.
Recovery definitely takes a day or two, and puts downstream workouts at risk; I'm feeling it from my earlier session and may bag today's scheduled run
Last year I was able to keep decent space between the ceiling and roof, at least based on 5' and 20' tests. These WKOs were really intended to raise both
As far as HR, crush gets me pretty close to max. On the 1' intervals last year I was topping out at 175. The standard 30/30 stuff never got HR past 162. But I think that's just a function of the 30/30 workout; by design you don't fully recover before the next set and thus HR swings aren't as wide
@Cheryl Turpin this is probably not the right thread for that question but are you sure TR knows that your FTP is 171W? You can go into the workout and make sure that it is set for 1.2 x FTP. I am no longer on TR but did someone update our wkos in TR? I would take this discussion to the JOS wk 2 bike thread.
These are based off the Wingate test (aka Wingate protocol). There's not a lot of research out there on it though. The workout is based on the notion that super-high intensity work provides the best path to increasing VO2 power; and that raising Z5 power raises power across all other zones
I’m new and I just did the workout as it was uploaded. Now I know I can change it to 1.2 or 205W as a max....until it’s time to test again at wk 5.
There must be some really strong women in your group doing 256W...and that’s impressive....surprised no one else mentioned it...
1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29334005 - Measured on 5, 20 and 60 minute intervals so not endurance related but
CONCLUSIONS:
Therefore, trained cyclists should develop maximal aerobic power irrespective of the duration of time trial, as well as enhancements in metabolic thresholds for long-duration time trials.
There is discussion on slowtwitch on this paper currently.http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/FTP_vs._physiological_tests_P6540164/?page=unread#unread
2) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3924424 - This is dated from 1985 but concluded that "continuous and interval training programs wee equally effective in improving VO2 max and submaximal ventilatory efficiency, regardless of initial fitness level, provided the total amount of work completed was equalized."
This study was based on 4 different effort levels with one being a Vo2 max group. I know I can't put in pro level hours of training so some formula of higher intensity is needed to get me closer to that point.
3) http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/sportsmedicine/resources/vo2description.html - A webpage from UC Davis sports medicine "VO2 max is also a predictor of performance, although its correlation to athletic success in endurance sports is only 30-40%, with other factors such as sustainable lactate threshold, motivation, training, etc... also playing a role. In general, however the higher a VO2 max the more potential for a successful performance in an aerobic endurance event."
4) https://www.slideshare.net/douglaskohatsu/limiting-factors-for-maximum-oxygen-uptake-and-determinants-of-endurance-performance - I read a bit of this article bottom of page 10 top of page 11 "... Vo2max and %of Vo2max change over months of training vo2max increases over the 1st 2 months the levels off while the % vo2max changes over time...Vo2max(% at the LT(Lactate threshold)) increase much more as a result of training than does Vo2max.
So the way I'm reading this is if you are on the pointy end working V02max systems may garner a small increase you are looking for at that level.
Now the million dollar question is link the appropriate amount of intensity a 1.5, 1.6 or 1.7 IF crush interval with the appropriate amount of time. 30" 1' or perhaps longer.
https://datadrivenathlete.com/2017/02/15/vo2max-how-to-build-it-higher/
Having given this bias, I will also say that the most effective strategy for training IMO is to engage in continually changing the focus of training. For VO2 max improvement specifically, that might mean 4 weeks of focus on FTP work, 3 weeks focus on standard VO2 workout, 2-3 weeks of "crush intervals", 3-4 weeks of steady state (ABP/0.8-0.85 IF) work, etc, until about 8-10 weeks before an A race, when the training should be primarily about race specific efforts. While the amount of work time engaged in actual intervals will vary amongst these (30-60' for FTP, 10-20' for VO2, 5-10' for Crush, 90-150' for ABP, etc), the actual training stress should remain the same, in the range of 65-75 TSS/hour. More than that, and you'll dig a hole, less than that and you won't improve.
There is no single magic bullet to improvement...
Spot on with your last statement ... and @Al Truscott makes a great point about mixing up the work. It's January, and we're in a good position to experiment with VO2 workouts that generate 100 TSS points. But by week 8 of an IM or HIM build we'd better be on FTP and race-pace work
Then today I rode 30/30 (more like 35/25 with the spin-up time); basically 32 intervals as 4 x 8; rode 72 minutes and 100 TSS points; power in the "on" phase was about 360. Here's the snippet:
Both were hard. I'll probably never know which one was better; hopefully they both do wonders come race day
The 30/30's have a much narrower range that slides upward as the session progresses: 148-160 (recover-peak) sliding to 152-166 in the later intervals
Al has written on the value of starting another interval without being fully recovered. We definitely get that with the 30/30 sets
The bedrock of these crush intervals is “advanced high-intensity VO2 bike interval workout(s).” However, this isn’t true as far as i can understand: classic v02 intervals - in Coogan zones - occur at 120% power, and have a specific purpose to increase v02 max, and have a series of specific physioological adaptations that correspond to this. I’m writing this on a flight and can’t pull links from the net, but this, and Coogan zones generally, come from good science. Other zones have other specific purposes, and create other adaptations. What I’m seeing in crush levels are zones that are doing lots of work, but targeting and creating adaptations that don’t apply to what we are trying to do in our training as triathletes.
Is doing these wrong? No, but I think if you stand these side by side, and have a choice between choosing something like crush, and choosing something like v02 intervals (whether done as 30/30, or 3/2, or whatever), the science (and safe money) would go to v02. Moreover, I think earlier in the thread, someone pointed out that these are occurring in the context of OS work where there is a LOT of intensity, and even completing the v02 sets in their most gentle form can create a lot of stress. I believe the Crush work, with the greater intensity, requires even greater recovery needs, and increases risk for rewards that don’t have specific evidence (or, have contradictory evidence) behind them.
I can agree that they are probably very good for creating TSS count, but not all TSS is the same. The key, I think, is the right stress, creating the optimal adaptations through targeting the correct systems, whether that be with the limited time we have (in a EN-high ROI model), or up to the maximum we can handle as athletes without breakdown (in a non-high ROI model). Work might be very, very time effective, but work differs, and there are points where more equals more ... until it doesn’t.
@Gordon Cherwoniak, you’re a better man that I am to persevere through the Coogan Slowtwitch thread. When I left off, I thought the argument had centred around prediction based on performance versus testing as inputs to a training model. There was, however, another Coogan thread around late December discussing HIIT intervals, and this was very much on point to the Crush question. The other links are great reads, but I still don’t see the connect between supra max/150-200% work, and raising vo2, where there’s already clear connection between vo2 max work, and increasing vo2.
Ok ... so now tell me why I might be dead-nuts wrong on the above!
Sent from my iPad
Nice write up Paul. I like how there are no preset targets for power, no preset recovery time, and not even a preset limit as to how long the intervals can be.
Great discussion has ensued with lots of great points. Some of my take aways and thoughts.
1. not a one size fits all (same as any wko plan)
2. not a replacement of typical 30/30's or 60/60's...
3. good for anyone, as long as done ,the appropriate time/distance from race... always working from least specific to most specific this kind of work belongs in OS or 4-5 months out IMO
4. ROI might be better spent elsewhere depending on individual etc (see #1)
5. agree withe Dave not specific for V02 (since its not its above ) although probably benefits V02 just like all work zones should benefit all other work zones some amount even minimally.
6. the article Al quoted mentions 5' v02 and I notice no one talking about that time frame (again that is specific to v02)
7. in a perfect world with lots of time etc... I would structure a month of this type of work Paul describes 2-3 times a week, followed by a month 2-3 times per week of more typical 30/30's - 60/60's etc with less rest and lower targets, followed by a month 2-3 times per week of 4-5min intervals again dropping intensity but now solidly in the V02 range, finally proceeding to FTP work, then HIM or IM specific ... These blocks can be changed in length etc but it works from least specific to most specific.
8. no matter what this kind of work stresses and stimulates systems/zones whatever you want to call them that most of triathletes just dont use... My guess is FOP peeps who have been at this a while , gone through several classic OS years and are plateauing would benefit the most...
9. sure shakes things up and keeps things interesting....
10. below I will explain 3 somewhat recent blocks of v02 that I have done that is not typical...
10a. The winter of 2012/2013 I spent training for my first KQ at IMTX May 2013... The v02 portion of my plan I built was 12 weeks long, 1x per week , I kept the work 18'-24' and the 1.5hr sessions always totalled over 100TSS , the progression was robot like , 30,40,50,60,75,90,105,120,135,150,165,180 , rest intervals always equalled work intervals, however the intensity level dropped slowly from the 30/30's to the 180/180s.... FWIW the 30/30's were in excess of IF 1.3 and the 180/180's were barely above IF 1.10
10b. My go to vo2 work in season is 4-5' intervals at IF 1.10 totaling 20' of work so a 4 x 5' or 5 x 4' , I try to work up to 5 x 5' and have done so a couple times.... HERE IS THE KICKER these are done AERO... I will do these up to 2 weeks out from a HIM or 4 weeks out from a IM if I can...
10c. last year I did a month long block somewhat similar to Pauls ... I did lots of 20's , 30's , and 40's.... Had no limits on target just as hard as I could but only ended up in the 130-150%... Rest was always double the interval so 20/40 , 30/60 , 40/80...