Bill Lowe RR

pathfinder · May 24, 2014 9:18PM

Hi folks, my RR started today in anticipation of IMCDA, mid 80's here in Cave Creek AZ, but felt hotter than that. Prev 80 mile rides and Wildflower I pushed it a little too hard on the bike, so kept limit to top of Zone 2 as key focus this time and felt good most of the ride, dragged a little at the end, but first time longer than 91 miles. So time was slower by staying in Z2, but I think that is where I'm at if I want to be able to run. Ride today was 112 miles, 6:15 at 17.8 MPH avg with 5 and 7 mile sections of 6% grade, then mostly flat to slight hills. 40 oz of perform per hour, 1 gu every 40 min, 2 salt tabs per hour. My voice was really hoarse after the ride, managed to get my run in, but am wondering if I need to supplement with xtra water on ride? Might just have been the combo of warmer temps and very dry air. Pee'd once on the ride, once transitioning to the run, but that does not seem like enough. Am also wondering if I'm overdoing it on sodium, or with that amount of sodium that maybe I do need, I need to balance that with some extra water.

This is my first IM, feeling good re the swim and ride, but need to make a few adjustments so I feel better heading into the run. Any thoughts/recommdations appreciated!

Looking forward to seeing everyone racing!

Bill

steven cummings · May 25, 2014 11:45AM

I typically aim for a sodium intake of around 900mg per hour through salt sticks, power gels, and infinit. I'm a salty sweater so i need the sodium for sure. You might want to add up the total for your 40oz's of perform, gu, and salt tabs to see what your total milligrams are. Extra water in 80 degree temps can't hurt! I did my RR in mid 80 degree weather and realized I could have used more for sure.

pathfinder · May 26, 2014 5:25PM

Thanks Steve! I'm over 1000mg on my sodium per hour so that's what made me think it's really a need for more h2o. I did my second ride in warmer weather the following day w an extra 10 oz of water per hour, actually felt better on that 71 mile ride than the 112 mile ride, but still only pee'd once on ride. It was also a higher % of smoother road surface the second day, not sure that is messing with me, but sure felt like that made me at least 1mph faster vs riding on chip seal...closer to the 20mph on my 80 mile rides previously.

Am doing 135 min final run of this "week" now, 95 degrees out after nice swim this am in the lake...this will definitely test my fitness and I guess ability to push when under some stress, will test my "one thing" a little I'm sure. Also going to incorporate an ad hoc sweat test on this for a real heat tester!

Thanks!

Bill

Jason Brandt · May 26, 2014 6:39PM

Good job getting it done Bill! Sounds like you are getting it dialed in and I am really impressed with how far you've come in the last 6 months. You are going to have an awesome race.

Agree there is opportunity to dial in the hydration. Sounds like you are also very cognizant of aiming for bike you should vs the bike you could to set you up for a great run.

Looking forward to hanging out with you, Kris and the kids when we are in CDA.

kevhill · May 27, 2014 4:29AM

Nice work on pushing through the heat Bill, I am training in Dubai through summer so can appreciate how hard it is to get it done when it's hot out. Sounds to me like a bit more H20 could help in those temps. I am a pretty big guy and take a Salt tab every 45 minutes but after last weekends ride am looking to up that a little to probably 30 or 35 minutes and also increasing my water.

Best of luck with CDA, if you have such a good plan and understanding already for sure you will crush it.

pathfinder · May 27, 2014 10:56AM

Thanks everyone for comments! Here is my RR key learnings and overview focusing on fluid.

_Did 112 miles bike on Sat, 40 oz per hour perform, 1 gu per 40 min and 2 salt tabs per hour, very hoarse voice at the end, did follow up run, but felt very rough, barely got that one done, must fix this...

_Did 71 mile bike on Sun, upped hydration to 40 oz perform and 10 oz water per hour, felt better than first day and had higher mph avg.

_Friends did lake swim Mon am, so did 50 min, pushed 135 min run to 4 pm. 4 PM was 100 degrees here in Cave Creek AZ, decided to do sweat test in heat, bottom line following protocol, comsumed 100 oz perform and water over full run, weighed in 8 pounds less after!!! Felt good thru mile 10, then heart rate started going up and last two miles avg 170...wow, I know it was hot, but looking back at the weekend, my Wildflower half IM where I was rough on the run, I think I'm way low on hydration. This will be my focus over the next week, testing much higher volume of perform and water. I'm 54 and sweat a lot more than I used to, just shows how important this is...my bad for not catching this sooner, thanks for everyone's input, I am learning from everyone. Thanks!

Al Truscott · May 27, 2014 11:36AM

Bill - when you say about your RR bike that you "...kept limit to top of Zone 2 as key focus …", are you referring to your heart rate or to power reading?

Regarding trying to hydrate sufficiently in 100F heat - you took in 100 oz in 2:15 already, yet lost 8 # or another 128 oz. that would mean you'd need to drink about 18 oz/mile if you're running 6 mph. I just don't know how easy it is to absorb that much fluid between aid stations, while trying to run at the HR you describe. Slowing down, judicious use of ice and sponges (which you may not have had access to in this workout), and increased fluid intake are all mandatory if you were to be able to go another 2+ hours.

Bottom line, if we face temps in the race which are like the first year of IM CDA (98F @ the start of the run), we'll need to consider how much to slow down, how much to try and drink, and what the complete set of cooling measures are, which would enable us to run the whole marathon without succumbing to heat exhaustion. A very tricky knife's edge proposition.

Or, it might be like 2008 when it was 48 and drizzling by 6 PM. Or anywhere in between.

pathfinder · May 27, 2014 11:53AM

Hi Al, yeah I'm using heart rate not power. Agreed that 18 oz might be tough per mile aid station on run, or I carry small pack that I sip and then do standard cups at each aid station. I suspect need will go down if temps in the 80s, so it will require adjustment, but I have learned here that I need to err on the high side for hydration, and it is drier air here, that does make a difference. I also agree, if hot, I will take advantage of all ice, wet towels, etc...glad am learning this now and not on course!

Thanks Al,

Bill

Al Truscott · May 27, 2014 12:04PM

Bill - I don't know much about how the EN HR zones are calculated. But based on % of max HR, I have never had to go over 75% of my max HR and usually more like 71-72% in the last half of of the bike to have a perfectly good race - talking 11:36 @ IM CDA @ age 61. That seems like mid-high Z1 in my parlance, but the definitions of zones are not standardized, so we may be talking the same thing.

Jenn Edwards · May 27, 2014 12:27PM

Hi Bill!

Dang, thats HOT! Sounds like you're on track but just wanted to point to a couple resources I find helpful just in case you haven't read them yet.

Here's an oldie but goodie that does a nice job laying out the basics and really digs into the water + heat situation: http://members.endurancenation.us/R...ion+Status

And this webinar is excellent - totally worth the time investment, IMO! http://members.endurancenation.us/R...ropelnicki)

@ Al: Looks like there's no such thing as moderation when it comes to IM - including the CDA weather!

pathfinder · May 27, 2014 10:30PM

Thanks Jenn, went thru both this evening, both were great. I may go thru them both again, but I have already picked up a lot from both. Looking forward to really testing some of this out, will make better use of every workout over next few weeks.

Thanks again,

Bill

pathfinder · May 30, 2014 12:14PM

Did 15 mile run last nite thurs nite, did sweat test again since last time I came out down 8 pounds after 2 hours 15 min in the heat of early evening here in AZ. This time I increased perform volume from 8 now up to 12 oz per mile by sipping along the way from camelback, it was all I could get down! But was burping this time and had to pee ea hour, so a much better sign. Lost only 4 pounds this time over 2 hours 38 min so a longer run so good relative improvement, still pretty hot here, so am hoping CDA is a little cooler than AZ which most of the time I think will be below 90 I hope, have been doing sweat test at more like 95 to 100 degrees. At this point, I think I have maxed out hydration volume, now focusing on running more efficiently. If that does not work, will have to slow pace a little.

Getting pumped up for CDA!!! My goal is to be healthy and finish, but after that, am shooting for 12 hours, thanks to all who have helped me with feedback, etc...I feel like I have a shot at it weather permitting.

Bill

Jenn Edwards · May 30, 2014 6:35PM

That's great news Bill! Thanks for the update. Been thinking about you and that's sweaty mess you make down there in Arizona. :-)

pathfinder · May 30, 2014 8:05PM

I'm adding moisture to the dry air, and helping a few cactus...always trying to do the right thing.

See ya racing.

pathfinder · May 31, 2014 9:22PM

Had first long ride today w new goal on perform volume, shooting for 70 oz per hour, did about 60, can handle the 70, just training myself to keep drinking that much is hard. Started ride at 80 degrees, ended at 100 degrees. I intentionally put run at the end today because have had trouble running after long rides, wanted to see if hydration/fueling was the main issue. Also held back a little on HR, avg over 5 hours was exactly mid Z2 instead of top of Z2, so closer to what Al recommended in terms of % of max HR. Felt very good on ride today through the end even in the heat, and this time had no problem running my miles after the ride, feeling much better about hydration/fueling, a real confidence booster. Pee'd twice on ride, but not much after run, so still need to get more down! Made some nutrition switches per information Jenn referred me to, feel like I am dialing this in. Still lost 5 pounds over 6 hours total, want to knock that down to 3-4, but given heat and dry air, maybe not too bad. Looking forward to last full race rehearsal next weekend.

Thanks to all who have been commenting and sharing knowledge, it is really helping me.

Bill

David Leventhal · May 31, 2014 9:34PM

That's good stuff Bill! Glad to hear that increasing the fluids on the bike translated to the run - definite confidence booster. AND you still have 28 days to continue to tweak/refine before the race.

robin sarner · June 1, 2014 2:42PM

Budding in here. You may have done the below already.

That is a lot to drink.

I am 183 lbs. 6-6. my hot hot race needs for the bike are initially 60 oz per hour of Perform. with moderate temps, 40 oz per hour.

Maybe consider a quick consult with Core Diet specifically about your race day nutrition.

Or a consult with Coach P who is a big man .

pathfinder · June 2, 2014 9:50AM

Thanks Robin, maybe part of it is due to heat, but I have been almost getting 70 oz perform down recently, felt like I went thru a threshold on Sunday when I added second run of the weekend, run went really well, feeling more confidence. I will either follow up with coach or Core Diet re next level nutrition, race getting close, but a couple tweaks will help I'm sure.

Thanks again,

Bill

pathfinder · June 2, 2014 9:52AM

Thanks David, did extra run on Sunday and felt really strong, feels like I'm breaking thru on the run. Will focus now on nutrition per core diet webinar I saw, and may follow up with some folks.

Thanks!

Bill

Bill Lowe RR

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