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IMLOU after IMLP?
I’m considering IMLOU in October. I just finished IMLP. See my race report for how it went. Not great but I got through it in 12:55.., run fell apart. I need to get revenge on my bad run at IMLP :). What would it look like to train for IMLOU this year (on October 13) after just completing IMLP? Would it be reasonable to think I might slightly reduce training volume and maintain my current fitness (so my Wife doesn’t kill me)? I think I would need to focus on run after my lackluster IMLP run. I feel bike and swim are in a good spot right now. Anyway... thinking about it and curious what the path would look like. I posted this in my coach forum but also posting here for general team feedback Thanks!
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Further thoughts on this specific question... IMO, you don;t need to cram in a lot of bike volume, 4-4.5 hour rides through the rolling hills there in the Tri-State area should do it with just a confirmatory Race rehearsal 2-3 weeks ahead of the race.
Although the book says don't run for 10-14 days, since you didn't really run the whole way, nor all that hard, you might be able to try a couple of miles this weekend. What you probably DON'T want to do is any faster work or longer work for 3 more weeks. 5K a day, 6-7 days a week next week, a little more the following, and then ease into the IM plan. Split runs in favor of long runs, except a couple 2:15-2:45 hr runs at say 5 and 4 weeks to go, of 15-18 miles.
The combination of not having an all-out race, and having 10+ weeks to go means you should not be carrying any residual fatigue into the training block as long as you manage the next two weeks conservatively. Then you have enough time to re-boot and have a good day, IMO.
I say go for it...but then, I've always been overly ambitious in my IM career.
I've done this AND I am considering this... it's this or Choo. Choo is an "easier" bike and harder run of the two and a harder run than LP. LV is a great bike and if you ride it correctly you will be rewarded on the run. If you ride it wrong, you will chew up your legs on hills just long enough to require work..
I like the distance on the calendar from LP as it would allow for a real build of fitness in the run & swim, and easily maintain bike fitness. I did this double 2 years ago, but became injured during the LV run.
For me I am concerned that what I have going on now is not going to allow me to train or execute to the level I wish, thus I am likely not to do it.. Docs visits this week and a half Mary in CLE in two weeks will help me decide. Feel free to ping me privately if you want to have a call and discuss how I've done these in the past.
also +2 on what Al said on the not having worked too hard in the Marathon, I expect to run easy this weekend since I certainly was ez on race day.
@Al Truscott thanks again for the good input. I appreciate the quick feedback on how the next week or two should look. I'll take the advice and ease in. Even though I didn't race as hard as other races I'm definitely still feeling tired.
@scott dinhofer Thanks for the thoughts and considerations. I appreciate your offer to discuss offline as well. I'll take you up on that in the next week or so if there is a good time. I'll contact you.
X2 on what @Al Truscott said and obviously Coach P's feedback will trump my input. I don't know and can't see you run build up and compliance with the training plan. In your Report you mentioned your run fitness not being as high as it was in the past couple years. But I don't think that explains this run performance and I doubt you need to work on improving your run much (save that for the OS) or do more bricks (because your first 6-8 miles should be slow). Assuming you hit 90% of the long runs in the IM plan, I'd look at your bike execution and hydration/nutrition on the bike. What was your race IF and TSS? For many people, a TSS well above 300 will result in under performing on the run. Also, what was your total calories/hr on the bike? Finishing the bike with a nutritional deficit and/or slightly dehydrated, can impact your run. One bottle per 45 mins might have been too little to keep properly hydrated. I target 2 bottles per hour.
Good luck with IMLou!
@Derrek Sanks good point on the bike and hydration. I felt pretty decent but its possible I was light on hydration. I'm going to experiment with that over the next month.
Also, FYI... I JUST SIGNED UP FOR IMLOU....YAY! I'm already excited. I mentioned it to my wife and she didn't say "NO" so I took that as a "YES" :-) Now I just have to pull together the plan to recover and get to the next race and perform better than the last race! @scott dinhofer let me know if you decide on IMLOU... love to catch up with you there. I'll probably reach out in the next week or so to discuss how you trained from IMLP to IMLOU in the past. Thanks to all for input and comment!
@Al Truscott you mentioned 4-4.5 hour rides above. I’m curious... would you recommend increasing the intensity of those rides or to just ride at the training plan prescribed power... just shorter?
@Bobby Patrick IMO, a weekly ride generating 210 TSS, about 2000-2250 kilojoules over 4.5 hrs is what you need to maintain form. You've already done the "epic challenge" ride shown early in the EN IM plan. But you will meed to do a full Race Rehearsal, including swim if possible, 2-2.5 weeks before the race.
Several back-to-back ABP rides the day after the long ride will also provide further bike strength for race day.
@Al Truscott you've been super helpful... you always do a great job answering questions. I'm starting to feel like a pest... but I have another question I'd like some input on. So, I've taken some direction from @Coach Patrick and started the IM Minimalist plan to maintain / prepare for IMLOU. I'm feeling pretty good / confident on the bike and dropping the weekend long rides to about 4 - 4.5 hours to spare some family time on the weekend.
With that said I feel like my run is not in the place it should be... I felt that at IMLP a couple of weeks ago too. The first thing I've noticed is that when I run at TRP POWER, my heart rate is up into zone 2 (elevated above TRP). I appear to be more efficient and comfortable running at higher paces / power. Its kinda funny... I can run in high zone 2 and zone 3 with some decent efficiency and very little decoupling... but I'm confident that the heart rate in those zones is too high for me to sustain in an Ironman. I don't feel very efficient or good running at TRP... for some crazy reason that seems hard for me and my heart rate is elevated at these lower paces. In summary... running feels difficult at TRP Power and I don't feel efficient or comfortable. I've tended to run a little harder than I'm scheduled for and wondering if this has left me in a state where my body is not efficient at running at lower paces.... which doesn't seem like a good place to be for an Ironman race.
I'd like to add some extra run time on top of the Minimalist plan to get my run fitness improved before IMLOU. I'm thinking I need to add several runs at these lower paces throughout the week to build total volume (at TRP)... maybe even trying to get at least 30 min a day... kinda like the run durability program. I was going to sit down and start penciling in extra runs to build run fitness at a higher rate over the coming weeks as IMLOU approaches. I'm thinking that I keep the normal speedwork thats in the minimalist plan but add some extra easy runs throughout the week. Do you have any thoughts on this and the approach? I'd love to hear from anyone interested in commenting. I'm certainly interested in comment from @Al Truscott at the risk of pestering him :-).
@Bobby Patrick not going to get into the HR issues with zones as I have to confess since I don't outright know them😨
but your comment of adding run time on top of the minimalist plan resonates. Think of the title of the plan, you CAN and SHOULD go beyond it at this point. You ARE fit. Hit up your coach thread for more advice on both long bikes and running.
My sense of the run is that you should start back up at a mileage that is roughly the average of your top 5 weeks before tapering for IMLP. From there add anywhere from one mile to 10% per week. Do this by trying to run every day with a minimum run on previous off days of 1.5-2 miles. it may not seem like much, but you will quickly increase your mileage with few big runs. Andy Lustigman did this with a Achilles injury he was working through this winter, with no run of longer than 8 miles and an average of 24mpw, he ran a sub 9'/mi Half Mary in March. For you I'd recommend that type of program, BUT making sure you get in your weekly long runs as per plan.
I appear to be more efficient and comfortable running at higher paces / power.
@Bobby Patrick Take a look at this video that@Coach Patrick posted two years ago. It could give you some insight on training with power and pace but on race day pull in HR.
https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/23982/watch-discuss-learn-october-2017-how-to-identify-heart-rate-targets-for-race-day