Gravel Bike Racing, BWR Key Race Info & All Things Gravel Seminar
I started this thread as a place to post questions on all things gravel racing. What is a gravel bike? Do I need one? (yes, of course) What is the difference? What is the BWR? etc.
What is a gravel bike? Gravel bikes come three flavors: Cyclocross, Gravel race, Adventure.
Cyclocross bikes are typically 1x11 or 1x12 with a big inner triangle (so you can carry it on you shoulder). Adventure bikes have lots of attachment points for extra bags and generally are a more relaxed or comfortable geometry. Gravel Bikes are in between, long wheel base makes them more stable in rough terrain. Gravel bikes typically look a lot more like a road bike. All have extra clearance for wider 40mm (sometimes larger tires) and newer ones have disc brakes - that work a bit better in the dust and water.
If you really want to get into the geometry and bike nerd out. Here you go:
Here is a 5 min video describing the difference between a cyclocross bike and a Gravel bike
Here is a 2 min video on the difference between Gravel and Adventure bikes.
Who makes Gravel bikes? Canyon, Lauf, 3T, Cannondale, Trek, Trail Donkey, Moots, Allied, Open, Niner.... you get the idea
Do I need a Gravel bike to ride the BWR? Depends. Depends on your comfort level of riding your road bike on trails and loose gravel. (There are points on the course that routinely eject water bottles from cages.) How wide a tire can you fit on your road bike? Wider tires give more traction and can run lower tire pressure which makes it easier to handle in rough terrain. Wider than 28mm is a must. I rode 38mm this year (38 psi), next year I will ride 34mm or 35mm (40 psi). Some folks do ride road bikes with super durable tires (no GP4000s here). You can optimize for the road or the gravel - but not both.
What about gearing? Personal preference. Some ride 1x11 or 1x 12. Others ride standard compact double chain rings with 11-32 or 11-28.
What is the BWR? How do you describe the course? It is a unique course in that it has 90+ miles of road, and 46 miles of dirt. That dirt is either rocky, loose gravel fire road or sandy and spread throughout the course. For example, there is a 8 mile loose fire road climb (1.5+ hours of climbing) followed by a road loop, then descend the same 8 mile loose gravel fire road. Another section is legit rocky mountain bike singletrack followed by packed gravel road. All of the dirt sections are "sectors" and they are named - kinda like the paris to roubaix.
– 136 Miles/219 Kilometers (Waffle) | 68 Miles/109 Kilometers (Wafer Ride)
– 13 Categorized Climbs (Including Three Category 2 Climbs)
– 12,000 Feet of Climbing (Waffle) | 6,500 Feet of Climbing (Wafer Ride)
– 17 Dirt Sections totaling over 46 miles (Long, Sandy, Wet, Rocky, Hilly, Ugly)
– 14 Water Crossings, or Foot Bridge Crossings
– 3 King of the Mountain segments
– 3 King of the Dirt segments
– 3 King of the Sprint segments
– 2 King of the Canyon segments
– 10 Feed Zones
All the dirt sectors are described here with a promo video:
Where is the BWR? North County of San Diego. It starts in San Marcos, but goes into the hills of the East County, sometimes towards the coast and back again.
When is this BWR thing anyway? It is held between the end of April and mid-May. Dates have varied between April 24 to May 21. Last year was May 5. The event date is announced at the end of October/ Early November and registration is in December. If you want to get an email - subscribe here. Make a note in the message box that you want to be added to the newsletter. https://monumentsofcycling.com/contact-us (or just wait and I'll stalk the site for you and post when it is announced.)
Here is good first person video of the race experience:
Here is the promo video from 2018. (The 2019 video will come out in October). It is slow at the beginning but accurately describes the race.
GroupMe for BWR:
@scott dinhofer @Abbey Bonner @Emily Brinkley @Kori Martini @Scott Giljum
Comments
Thinking of the Belgian waffle ride in 2020?
join the group 'BWR - 2020 Belgian Waffle Ride' on GroupMe. Click here to join: https://groupme.com/join_group/52533144/buHYyKn6
Great overview to gravel @matt limbert and cool video on BWR. I got into it simply to get off the roads and away from cars. Little did I know how much gravel there is or how many cool events there were. When I was researching bikes, I went for something less cross and more gravel/pack worthy. I didn't want to spend a bunch in case I didn't love it. I searched eBay / Facebook market etc, but finally found a great deal at ProsCloset on a newish Salsa Warbird '19 that I absolutely love. It is 2x with 42 tires...so plush. I've been exploring Montana backroads the last few weekends and its been nice seeing about 1 car every 45 minutes or so (I had to get out of the way of a wheat harvester one day). The learning curve has been steep...gear ratios, tubeless rims etc, but has been awesome riding. I have a 90 mile gravel race in Wyoming next month with 9800' elevation. Not sure how that is going to go, we will see. Hopefully not too strict with the time cutoffs lol. Only thing left to get is some off road / mtb shoes and spd pedals. I have just used my road shoes and power taps and needless to say they are getting thrashed. Eventually for me I think this will transition into some multiday bike packing events (trans South Dakota on my radar).
@matt limbert GREAT opening post for this topic.. the next iteration is to learn about different geometry setups and how they effect your ride. I bought the Lauf True Grit a year ago. It's a unique bike that has a leaf suspension fork. That's not the whole reason why I bought it. I looked hard at the trail donkey, 3T enduro and the two bikes from Open (Up & Upper).
The 3T is most aggressive, essentially hardcore road bike geometry designed to accommodate big tires & disc brakes. The Lauf was at the other end of the spectrum with a more relaxed geometry and the trail donkey & opens were in the middle. The more relaxed of the bikes will ride more like an MTB which can be helpful.
@matt limbert - here's my options for the BWR - Pinarello F10 with likely 25mm or 26mm tires, or the Lauf with as narrow a tire as possible, likely a 30 or 32. I can go up to 42 and have a pretty aggressive 38 on there now for Vermont Pave. Thinking of something like the Schwalbe G-One Speed. Thinking the best option is the lauf with the narrow tires..
@Jeff Horn Thanks for reading. Gravel and Montana are on my short list. Any recommendations for a race or particularly good location to base out of in Montana. BTW. I only do Montana in the summer! I just did a ride/race in Steamboat Springs, CO. Great roads, great scenery. 140, 100, 36 mile courses. 1 min video here:
I agree with you 100% on the open spaces, scenery and lack of cars. I'll take a wheat harvester any day over a mini van zorching by me at 50 mph. On the shoes and pedals thing - I have used MTB XT pedals with a dirt shoe from Giro. I'm happy with them. I'm interested to hear more about gravel in your area...
Pictures from the course:
I'm throwing in a comment to get the updates to the thread. I just started researching bikes, so if I run across something new, I will certainly post. Thanks for the awesome intro to all of this Matt!
Thanks for the information Matt. Susan and I went to Bend last weekend and @JohnStark hooked us up with Specialized Diverge Comp bikes and we hit the trails. It was great being in the woods and I see two gravel bikes in our future. Susan tried mountain biking with us the next day but was not impressed, so gravel it is when I ride with her.
The Diverge is the only gravel bike I've ridden but I did like it. It handled gravel, sand, single track (some rocks and roots included), and pavement really well. We climbed Lava Butte which has a 8% grade and it didn't feel that much different than my road bike. It had 35 mm tires with a smooth center tread. By the end of the ride Susan was saying, "One bike, two sets of wheels." (We've ordered a Happier Camper and having one bike for gravel and pavement will make things easier.)
Some of the greatest hits from the GroupMe on Tire & Rim selection:
Great pictures and video @matt limbert . It seems like there are a few races west of me in Bozeman and in Missoula. There was a Montana Gravel Challenge multiway event that is no longer. South in Wyoming there is a series of races that look pretty cool. Ill hit a couple of these next year.
The ride I'm doing next month is the Badmedicine ride in Shell, WY. I think its the same folks from the Dead Swede.
As far as shoes go, I am guessing you are in the Giro Empire lace ups? There was a review by OutdoorGearLab saying these were comfy and decent for hike a bike if the situation arose.
@Scott Giljum don't forget to look at ProsCloset. They are based out of Boulder I think. I just got a great deal on the bike I was looking for, came in much better condition than expected. Its tough when you can't ride it beforehand, but when you know the model / size it works out.
I have a bright orange Specialized Diverge. I love it. It’s my daily commuter bike with 28mm tires on it. I did a five day trip in NC of 50-80 miles per day and it was comfortable. I took it to a Cyclocross clinic with it and it did great, but I haven’t raced it yet. I’ve done a bike packing trip on it and that also went really well- 90 miles one day and 83 the next. It likes gravel roads and would handle racing well with larger tires.
I love the disk brakes and the geometry is comfortable for me. I put an adjustable stem on it so I could be faster or more comfortable, depending on desires.
Bucket list!!!
Ok Gravel experts (and novices), I’m looking at bikes and am thinking about gearing. I see both a 1x and 2x option. As a so-so climber, I’m told I might be better suited to a 2x, but as someone who prefers fewer moving parts, the simplicity of the 1x sounds best. I know a 1x can be configured to allow for baby gears I will likely need, but I also know that leads to bigger gaps between gears potentially. Am I overthinking this? What are your thoughts and suggestions on gearing knowing I’m not a super strong climber?
@Scott Giljum I'm not an expert and I've only ridden two gravel bikes but one had a 1X (Norco Search) and the other a 2X (Specialized Diverge). I liked the 2X better because of the smaller gaps. It wasn't so noticeable on the gravel sections, but it was noticeable on the pavement. Since I'm looking to use this as a commuter bike and an adventure bike, the pavement part is important to me. As far as moving parts goes, the front derailleur is pretty easy to keep happy, it's the rear derailleur that's more picky.
I do have a 1X on my MTB and really like it. But on the trails I don't miss the gaps as much since I pretty much always in the extremes of going slow and grinding up hills or going down hills and either not pedaling or in the high gears pounding it.
Have you ridden a gravel bike? What kind of riding do you want to do and what are you asking of the bike?
Not 100% sure on all applications @Mark Maurer but gravel racing, bike packing, and possibly just commuting all come to mind. I also haven’t ridden one yet, but am looking to try some out at the LBS soon. I’m hoping to get a feel for what I like more with that, but wanted to hear from others experience as well.
@Scott Giljum Bottom Line: If you go with 2x - pay close attention to your rear derailleur style. Look for long cage or the new Shimano Gravel.
I have 2x on the gravel bike and 1x on the mountain bike like @Mark Maurer. @Dave Campbell has gone to 1x on the gravel bike. I just switched the mountain bike from 2x to 1x and don't really notice the difference in cadence options. I do notice the advantage of being able to go from low end to high end faster. Test riding both is a great option. If I was to do to it again, 1x would not be a show stopper or driver for me. It would be geometry, comfort and confidence in handling. I would double check the gear ratio - and would bias towards a road ration compact w/ 28 or 30 ratio - the fire roads I have encountered are just not mountain bike steep, if they are - they are few and far between. If you do go with road, look for a long cage derailleur to keep your rear cassette gearing options open and larger. Some gravel bikes might try to save on price point and have only short cage which would limit your biggest rear cassette. If you go with something new, Shimano has just come out with a Gravel specific (GRX) groupset. It is long cage with a clutch to prevent chain bounce like a mountain bike.
I have a Specialized Diverge with a 2x mainly used for commuting. Also did a bike pack trip. I rarely use the small ring, but when I want it, I’m super glad I have it. I like the flexibility.
wondering if we should have a few Gravel threads going:
-Gravel Bikes & Gear Selection
-Gravel Events
-anything else?
As to the question on Gravel bikes.. I have my lauf set up as a 1x with a 42 up front and a XX-42 (11spd) in back. I definitely spin out early, but on DH Gravel, you tend to be a bit more careful than on road. I am NOT "spinning" uphill and am now thinking about changing front ring to a 40.
As for used bikes, the pros closet can be great. I bought my Sworrks 29er HT Rockhopper MTB from them a few years ago. I essentially bought a like new condition 7 year old bike that would have cost $10k new. it was nicely modified with the right gear by the former owner and in mint condition.
I am considering putting a 1x drivetrain on the MTB if I go back to LV in 2020.
Were I to join this party, I would use my 24 y/o "Talisman" (a local Seattle bike builder from the turn of the century.) This bike has seen a LOT of use in various capacities over the years. Designed as a touring bike, with long chain-stays and wide fork/rear seat stays, it can accommodate up to 40 mm tires between its old style MTB brakes. It has been across the country, down the Pacific Coast, up the Canadian Rockies, across the Oregon Cascades, through the Wallowas and Blue Mtns in NW Oregon, and took me back and forth to work in all weather, 12 months a year from 1997-2012. In addition, it travels well, with S&S couplers it fits into a 26" suitcase. All steel, natch. Drop handlebars, currently with Compact SRAM crank drivetrain, it is now "out to pasture", serving as my Zwift bike the past two years. It's ready to crunch some gravel once I get the proper treads.
Here's hoping the BWR will be on or before the first weekend of May, otherwise, I'll miss out, rafting the Grand Canyon May 6-21...
Looking forward to BWR 2020!! I’m 98% sure I’m going to use my gravel bike. It’s a 1x Jari. For context I did do the 2013 waffle on a road bike and then the wafer in 2014 or 2015. there was so much road and I wanted to be faster there. I could pick my way through the dirt craziness. Also, my cross bike at the time likely wouldn’t have been as comfortable for that distance. The course has changed a bit over the years and now that I’ve ridden my gravel bike more, I am so much more comfortable on the dirt with it, I am less comfortable on the dirt in my road bike. As usual I’m not super concerned about time- I just want to have fun.
PS. I’m also doing the Rift in Iceland in July. Registration opens September 23, with access a week early if you get on the mailing list. #epic
@Julia Herrmann "I'm doing the Rift...." It makes BWR look like a warm-up and Dirty Kanza a decent training ride. 200km, off-road, across lava fields, self-supported, in Iceland.
I'm not worthy.....#soepic
Pictures:
Video here:
@scott dinhofer FYI. He rides a Lauf in the promo.
@matt limbert It was.... Bananas hard. My boyfriend took a rock to his frame and broke it, rendering it unrideable around mile 25. So he must have revenge in 2020. And I’m determined to be better prepared, mentally. My knee had a twinge around mile 25 and kept it up the next 100 miles, never getting worse but never getting better. I guess I want my own revenge too. Plus, yes those photos. Aahhhmazing views. 😮😮
@Al Truscott BWR is May 3rd, 2020 according to an FB post in June of this year!
should we be looking at a AirBnB for the BWR? if so, where??
There are some of the many I've perused.
since this is BWR entry week. I thought I'd get the chat back to bike choice. This race is a tough one to call the bike choice because it isn't a road ride, though it mostly is and it isn't a gravel ride, though it is probably so for 35-40% of your day.
I have been doing a lot of reading on this and it seems like the right bike is an aggressive geometry (road bike like) with the ability to ride a 30-34 road type of tire set up tubeless for lower pressures that will help you in the dirt.
so that makes my Pinarello F10 which I could put 28s on a touch option though they say you can "survive" this ride. I feel like my Lauf Gravel bike is going to be too relaxed of a geometry for this ride. So what to do? I am thinking of getting a 2nd gravel bike that would be a used bike, looking at some 3T and SC Stigmatta's that look good and would do the job...
thoughts on bike / tire choice?
I vote for more Bikes!
Here is another fun gravel ride in June 2020. Registration opens in a month.
https://www.vtmonster.com
Here is the update from our first Gravel Seminar.
We covered: What is Gravel? What gear, bikes, tires you like, and why? We talked races/events we like and why. How to enter? What are they like? Then we covered the need (or lack thereof) for special training/skills. Disparity and opportunities for more women's participation and finally the vibe and experience of gravel events.
Here are some of the references/websites we talked about:
Research for gravel or fire roads near you:
https://www.mtbproject.com/ or https://www.trailforks.com/
While these site are primarily for mountain bikers. They offer a good starting point for finding fire, forest service, or gravel roads to ride. The sites color code the trails and often have good descriptions and updated conditions (i.e. muddy, dry, rutted, rocky, packed dirt etc) and directions for parking.
Research for Gravel events near you:
Gravel Cyclist has a pretty good list. Posting races all over the US: VT, Florida, NC, SC, MI, Ohio, Wy, Kansas, AR, Texas, Oregon, Colorado, Kentucky. If you like grass roots and events that are close to the community - it's a gravel ride.
Other events mentioned:
Belgian Waffle Ride (San Diego, Asheville, Cedar City Utah) - https://belgianwaffleride.bike/
The Rift (Iceland. Because....Iceland!) - https://www.therift.bike/
Oregon Gravel Grinder OR - http://oregongravelgrinder.com/
Dirty Kanza KA - https://dirtykanza.com/
Grasshopper series CA - https://grasshopperadventureseries.com/
Barry Roubaix MI - https://barry-roubaix.com/
Big Sugar AK - https://www.bigsugargravel.com/
Vermont Overland - https://www.vermontoverland.com/
Rooted Vermont - https://www.rootedvermont.com/
unPAved Pennsylvania. Ha! Get it?! - https://www.unpavedpennsylvania.com/
Croatan Buck Fifty NC - https://croatanbuckfifty.com/
Gear and tires:
We could talk bike and tire choice forever. Here is a baseline to consider for some of the most well known events (taken from an article of In the Know Cycling: https://intheknowcycling.com/choosing-gravel-bike-tires/
Women's disparity and opportunities for more women's participation.
Skills development for anyone:
Vibe and experience
A majority of the panelists felt that the events they have attended so far have a great grass roots and community feel, with a variety of distances, and a variety of surfaces. If you want long and gnarly - its out there, if you want long packed dirt - it out there, if you want short with combination of road, gnarly, fire road - guess what?! Its out there. The best way I can describe it is: Its a lot of people who just like to ride bikes and are happy about it. I feel the vibe is a lot like a local turkey trot - lots of different folks participating for all types of reasons and all out to have fun. If you want to ride hard - have at it. If you want to chill with your friends - have at it. If you want to do a combination - have at it.
Thanks to our seminar panelists & participants: @Sid Wavrin, @Emily Brinkley, @Julia Herrmann, @Mark Maurer, @Al Truscott, @scott dinhofer I'm sure there were a few others and I most likely missed some stuff. Please add your comments and additional resources. #Gravelisthefuture
@matt limbert great webinar and summary. So much good work! Thank You!
I wish I would've known about this, I definitely have some gravel and MTB time and feedback that I could've provided!
Sign me up for the next one!
BTW, you touched on this point early, @matt limbert , about setting up race classifications, etc, and just read this article yesterday:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2409457/usa-cycling-gravel-biking