DIY Nutrition and UCAN Thread, talking Cluster Dextrin and More!

This is excerpted from GroupMe for your reading / learning pleasure @Robert Sabo And @Scott Alexander@scott dinhofer

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TUE, 4:36 PM

Sheila Leard

@Robert Sabo I’ve done seminars on UCAN. Have worked with athletes who want to use it. Lots is studies on Superstarch. Nothing that shows improving performance unless your gut is a limiter that would deter performance. Since it hit the sports nutrition world there has been numerous protocols published on how to use it. TO used it at Kona last year, consequently has captured athletes attention. Too much to say here. 

If you’re looking for a cheaper alternative check out High Branch Chain Cyclic Dextrin, also called cluster dextrin. It’s the carb used in First Endurance products. You can buy it in bulk and mix with electrolyte drink. It has a high molecular wt so the osmotic load or pressure is low. It gets into the small intestine very nicely. No insulin spikes. Steady blood sugar. Too much to write here. 

Professor @Larry Peters  probably understands molecular wt. 

TUE, 5:11 PM

Jenn Edwards

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/imtalk/id143250328?i=1000470700518

Good interview with a guy that did a study on UCAN and runners. 

TUE, 5:17 PM

Jeff Phillips

@Robert Sabo  I’m trying UCAN now. Used on one ride so far, so too early to tell. Agree with @Moe Money [Ultra] on the chalkiness, but that didn’t seem too bad. I’m comparing/ contrasting with EFS which I’ve used for the past year. 

TUE, 5:32 PM

KMF

I believe EFS is best in class but not cheap......I've learned to like Gatorade Endurance and find it on many race courses which iui s convenient

TUE, 5:38 PM

Scott Imlay

Interesting (and relevant???) podcast. Michael McNight did a 100-mile run with no food - nothing but water and salt. He finished in 18.5 hours! http://trailrunnernation.com/2020/05/ep-471-running-100-miles-without-food/

You could save tons of $ you would have spent on UCAN! 

TUE, 8:25 PM

Brian Hagan [AT NOBO]

 2

@Jenn Edwards wards Are you all in with ucan or do you supplement? I could never trust to go all in for 90

Calories per hour, so I feel like I did not give it the full try. I don’t think it works well if you supplement with other types of sugar. So, my experience was not as good. @Robert Sabo

TUE, 8:35 PM

Jenn Edwards

 3

@Brian Hagan an [AT NOBO] I’m using it like TO does as a supplement one serving per hour behind the scenes. I add more cals (real food like bananas or dates or fig bars) for now to get to the 350-400 per hour on the bike I’ve had success with historically. 

Will be transitioning to shot blocks some day a long long time from now when we race again. 

I’ve done ^^ for up to six hours a couple of times in the last year and not only do I feel really steady during the day but I don’t want to eat the entire refrigerator the moment I get home. 

I’ve luckily nver been the GI problem / under fueled on race day athlete. There are benefits to that Italian momma who fed us every 15’. 🥰 

My n= 1! 

 1

@Brian Hagan an [AT NOBO] It can be made into the consistency of a gel and then carried in little baby food pouches for real life rides. Like outside. Where the world is not flat! So exciting!

Brian Hagan [AT NOBO]

 2

@Jenn Edwards Thanks! I heard TO podcast. Maybe it was IM Talk. Hmm. That’s easier than making infinite concentrate bottles. I may given another try. Shouldn’t you be sleeping. 

Jenn Edwards

 3

Ni ni in 3, 2, @Brian Hagan [AT NOBO] 

WED, 7:11 AM

CoachP [#SoHonored]

 2

FWIW ucan interview strongly recommended making the drink the night before you are going to use it and keep in the fridge. 

WED, 9:30 AM

Sheila Leard

 1

Here is a presentation with UCAN and Bob Seebohar who is the originator of Metabolic Efficiency. I've trained with Bob and his approach is not to be low carb but to balance blood sugar thru daily diet. Type 2 diabetic athletes have had success using UCAN. The athletes who succeed with UCAN are typically in the Ultra sphere. There is research going on with testing UCAN and higher intensity sessions. So far most athletes are seeing that they need quick carb sources to make the ATP at high intensity.

 2

What I've seen is that UCAN may be beneficial for before and after. If used during, then you need to experiment with the taste, consistency, electrolytes and can you drink warm UCAN. I tried UCAN in 2011 at the Austin 70.3 and bonked. I was so full drinking one bottle that I got behind on calories and fluids. Fast forward to 2019 KONA and now TO is bringing it to the attention of long course athletes. He uses Roctaine gels with the UCAN. You can see the evolution of UCAN here. If you struggle with getting in enough calories, give it a go. There is no one way of fueling with it. The plain is the most versatile. You will be in some $$$ to use UCAN.

Sheila Leard

 4

Cluster Dextrin is now in Skratch! EFS added it years ago.. https://www.skratchlabs.com/products/sport-superfuel-drink-mix?variant=32202964697159

https://www.nutrabio.com/product/SCARB30/ Or buy it in bulk. Used it for over ten years#notnewnews

Robert Sabo

 3

That’s what I mentioned before. The skratch superfuel. $5 per serving. But one serving is 400 calories. Cluster dextrin doesn’t have the issues that maltodextran has?

Sheila Leard

 4

Absolutely not. Maltodextrin leaves the gut fast but sits outside the small intestine. High osmotic load. 

Cluster dextrin does not do that. It acts like super starch, high molecular weight, gets into the small intestine very nicely. 

WED, 10:45 AM

Carl Alleyne

Oh wow I may need to try that 400 calorie version. @Sheila Leard Do you know if Infinit uses cluster dextrin or maltodextran?

WED, 11:35 AM

Vincent Sivirine

 2

@Sheila Leard thank you for the post, very interesting. I've always heard that Carbo Pro has low osmotic load despite being Maltdextrin and I've used it without any issues in the past. But i will give Cluster Dextrin a try. I assume I would have to add a nuun tablet or any other product to give it a taste and add electrolytes and i would be good to go?

WED, 1:41 PM

Nam K. Lam

 1

Glad to hear that the new carbohydrate change of Skratch is less hyperosmolar @Sheila Leard . My threshold for the old Skratch was 88 oz over 4 hours. Beyond that, Skratch is like Golytely to me

WED, 1:58 PM

Sheila Leard

 2

@Vincent Sivirine as I understand it, in CarboPro the glucose chain is more linear than high branched chain cluster dextrin. This HBCCD makes it slower to be cleaved. But, if it works for you don't change. I've been adding Cluster Dextrin to my NBS so each bottle is about 150-200 calories. I supplement with chews and or a bar. That's it. I need around 250 cal/hr based on a Metabolic Test I had done.

 1

@Carl Alleyne Infinite is Maltodextrin

WED, 2:04 PM

Scott Imlay

 2

What’s in Nuun Endurance @Sheila Leard?

WED, 2:13 PM

Sheila Leard

 2

It’s almost identical to Skratch, OSMO, NBS 

 same principle, low sugar, high electrolytes.