Zone 5 bike and depression symptoms
for as long (*) as I have done bike workouts with any work at or above zone 5, I can guarantee that I will have at least a few episodes, per season, of daylong biochemical “mental illness” that is a direct result of the session.
Anyone else?
the experience is the symptoms come on like any kind of dysfunctional overreaching, but instead of, say, a sore throat, irritability, or muscle pain, I wake up and go through the day with a feeling of hopelessness, “washed out’edness”, feeling like I’m going to cry all the time, an inability to focus, and uncontrollable sadness. Add a video montage of a outdoor smooth jazz concert, and I would be the “before” in a TV ad for Zoloft. Training on those days just doesn’t happen, or lasts about 5 minutes before shutting down. (I actually have to put cautions in place when these episodes occur so I don’t do crazy things at work or on my commute like weeping or having an an emotional breakdown in a budget meeting).
this happens only as a result of Work at or above zone 5 on the bike. It doesn’t happen as a result of FTP bike work, vo2 run work, excessive volume, too great of a slope on the ramp, excessive LT run+FTP bike, or anything else. Just zone 5 on the bike, and also always the day or two after a particular session, always late in the week. For as long as I’ve done OSes. Oh - and after a day or two off, it’s back to normal.
Any guesses as to specifically what’s going on here? theories? I had wondered about this specific type of work selectively doing something at a biochemical level that other types of work, or functional or dysfunctional overreaching, don’t do, but this is where I’m way out of my depth. Would this type of work increase some type of hormone production that affects serotonin or dopamine? What is it about this type of work that makes the brain react differently than other training stresses?
*measured in time in EN
Comments
@Dave - this tells me that I'm not working hard enough because I've never experienced any such issues. You must be turning yourself inside out.
Sorry to hear this. My guess is you're "over reaching" during those efforts causing some type of hormonal imbalance or really spiking your cortisol levels.
What are the interval durations and % of FTP of your typical VO2 workouts? Do you use ERG to keep you at the prescribed power levels?
Interesting situation @Dave Tallo . I would also think of cortisol issues. I assume a smart guy like you has tried a variety of post workout recovery aides like protein/carb shake and increased rest.
interesting and I hadn’t thought about cortisol production. more interesting is there’s a non-linear relationship /reaction to the intensity - again, I could do work between z1-4 until my legs fall off without these effects, but the moment the intensity goes into that z5 plus, it triggers this unique response. A 300 tss long ride: no problem. But A 100 tss session with, say, 15’ cumulative of “on” time at 120% , and that’ll elicit this particular type of overreaching.
@Derrek Sanks - it happens at anything at or above 120%. Previous seasons, it has come on after The stock OS sessions comprising 30/30s at 120%, and this season, as I’ve been experimenting with ‘highest sustainable’ intervals for 1 minute, 2 minute, 3 minute and 4 minute power, these all (similarly) bring it about.
@Paul Hough - trust me, it has little to do with my ability to go deep ... I can push, but def. not as hard as lots of folks on the team!
Could be catecholamine depletion. If you haven't had your thyroid and testosterone levels checked, could start there.
@Dave Tallo You could consider taking ashwagandha on the days of high intensity training. It's an interesting herb used for lowering cortisol. It's been around for years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6979308/
Take a look at this graph.I reference it alot bc it's straight forward. Catecholamines should go up with intensity and duration. This is what regulates blood sugar when exercising. One of the main goals of post exercise carbs and protein is to offset the cortisol.
If you do get some labs done ask for a serum morning Cortisol. It's just a snapshot of your diurnal rhythm. It should be under 17.
Thanks all and esp. @Sheila Leard for the suggestion. I can't possibly take Ashwagandha without thinking of this SNL skit, but I'm all in!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2019/03/13/gwyneth-paltrow-sells-ashwagandha-products-but-what-it/3139531002/
Wakanda Forever!
FUUUCK
@Dave Tallo I am super interested in this one. As someone who is open about their depression, anxiety, etc. I'd love to hear how the ashwagandha works, if at all. Or better yet, just stay the F out of Z11 😀
These days I've got my shit together, but I can go weeks or months of "I wake up and go through the day with a feeling of hopelessness, “washed out’edness”, feeling like I’m going to cry all the time, an inability to focus, and uncontrollable sadness. Add a video montage of a outdoor smooth jazz concert, and I would be the “before” in a TV ad for Zoloft."
@Patrick Large - I'll keep you posted and Amazon just pinged me to say my supersize bottle of Ashwagandha is here. Good thing, too, because @Coach Patrick has me lined up for 6 more weeks of 10 second to 3 minute power work.
and I hear ya on depression and anxiety! (It's no coincidence that i can rhyme off six DSM indicators of clinical depression off the top of mind in my post)
i will have to consider adding this supplement.
i get a similar thing at times. And it may correlate to similar exercise type as you.
though I also have depression issues, generally, with too much AND too little training load.
Findings after 4-plus weeks of Z5+ bike work, while taking Ashwagandha: no difference from previous state in OP. I'm happy to have received the suggestion and to have done the experiment, but for me, this remedy did not change the frequency or nature of the episodes of 'depression.'
Cortisol is clearly related to depression... however, typically over prolonged periods of stress. A burst of cortisol is normal and actually an appropriate response to an intense workout. Its effect on brain function and mood is specific to the individual. If the depressed mood is only a day long, and you are able to identify and accept it, no action is necessary.