Week 10 IMCDA 2010
Hello Campers -
This just in.....Steadily raining in CDA for last 10 days! Semi nice day on Saturday and wife said there were 4000 out on bikes! Sure she is exaggerating but everyone who planned their last "big" ride before race was rewarded on Saturday. That being said. Rain does keep the water cooler but it only takes a couple days of sun to warm it up.
WATER TEMP = 54.6 degrees as of this morning. Keep in mind that reading is at least 6 feet deep and in the Spokane River Channel. Talking to a buddy up there he said it is not bad at all at swim venue. Probably 57 or so. Will get warmer.
Doing last week's long run tonight (because I wanna) and skipping today's swim. Swam long yesterday and right shoulder is pretty sore do going to rest it until Friday. Will run long Monday and Thursday as I am trying to decide between two different pairs of shoes! Side benefit of working here!!
This time in 3 weeks it will all be over and war stories at the coffee shop!
Comments
@ Bryan - what are the average air temps this time of year in CDA? I am thinking a lot about fluid intake and have done some back of the envelope math on fluid needs for mid-80's type weather. I seem to recall that CDA weather was sorta unpredictable very much like Lake Placid and to be ready for anything. Just curious if you had any insight.
I read the race reports from this past weekend. Great job all! Sounds like lots of others were dealing with heat issues as well. I was running/riding in mid-80's bright sun with high humidity. My fulid needs really doubled given a 10-15 degree rise in temp (from low-mid 70's to mid/upper 80's) and high humidity. I flipped my schedule last weekend and put my 2.5 run on Friday and 4.5 hour ride on Saturday - will move RR#2 to Friday this week at the IMLP Rally. On my run I drank 80 oz of fluids (20 oz Infinit, 20 oz gatorade, 40 oz powerade) and still dropped three pounds. On the previous weeks long runs I stopped an average of one time, drank 20-40 oz, and dropped essentially no weight. I could also really feel stomach issues start around the 2 hour mark in the heat and I actually had to walk a few steps to reset.
On Saturday I left pretty well topped off, but maybe a pound light. I rode 4.5 hours, drank approximately 160 oz (2 bottles/hour - 1 iNFINIT/1 water first 4 bottles, then 1 Gatorade/1 water second 4 bottles) and dropped 2 pounds in the same heat and sun conditions. And, I'm not peeing for hours after I get off the bike and never once on the bike.
So, I don't think the timing of the heat could have been better for me because I'm set up well to adjust for my RR on Friday. Also, that is exactly where I faild in my race at IMLP last year and got caught dehydrated climbing back into town. I look forward to posting my RR report to let you know how the adjustments went. Hopefully you all have your hydration dialed in. If not, I hope you can learn from my mistakes. Hopefully I can get them ironed out in the next 2 weeks.
Dominic
@Dominic--Average temps are about 77. But whether we will see that is another story, this year has been anything BUT normal.
I did my race rehearsal swim this morning since I was travelling last Friday. 2.4 miles in the pool. Did not do much of a warmup since I won't get one on race day, most likely. Kept a smooth and steady pace, kept plugging along and it seemed effortless. About 3/4s of the way I started getting a bit tired. Arms started feeling it and I started thinking about a peanut butter & jelly sammie.
Finished the distance in 1h 17m. Felt great afterwards. Given my major bonk on saturday's bike/run, I want to make sure I go really, really easy on the swim. I know I can go faster than a 1-17 on race day, but I know I shouldn't. I want to aim for about 1-25 or so.
So, let the taper begin. I am getting excited! Especially after being in CDA on Saturday. It was beautiful and I can't wait.
@Dominic
Trying to nail down average temp in CDA in June is like throwing darts at a moving target! Not going to have any consistency to it.
2003- Close to 100 by 3pm
2004-High 80's
2005- Close to 90 by 3pm
2006 - 98 degrees when I got off my bike
2007 - mid 80's
2008 - mid 70's
2009- mid 50's and rain
The reason I put 3pm on there several times is that is the hottest time of the day. Could really be anything, so be prepared!
@Bryan, thank you very much for the information. It seems to me to be pretty consistent with what we experience in NJ in June, though not really in the 50s. I'm a big fan of the jinx, so I'm not going to write what I think CDA is due for in terms of temps. Again, very helpful for the prep!
Dominic
+1
@ Dominic - The reported "average" high temperature for CDA that day is about 76. But the recent history on race day, as Bryan notes, is all over the map. Youi literally have to be ready for everything. Year one, people in the restuarants on Sherman were throwing ice from their machines out for us. Last year spectators were dressed in sheepskin coats and parkas as I started the run.
The Good:
Unlike RR #1, I did NOT have any GI distress. I think the concentrate with water is a better way to go for me.
Almost hit .7 IF for the whole ride, but with the climbing, it pushed up to .86. One more reason I need to hydrate more so I have a little more energy.
The Bad/Ugly:
I think I have a slight tear towards the top of my left calf (not directly behind my knee). It was hurting from approximately 30 miles on. At times, I could not get into an aero position without a significant amount of pain. I had to do the majority of the ride sitting up. Fortunately, I was riding with a doc who didn't think it would be a big deal come race day if I continue to ice, stretch, and take anti-inflammatories. The one good thing is that it doesn't hurt when I run or swim.
When I was done riding, I was starving. I threw down a small PB&J before I hit the run. I spent about 10 minutes eating and putting my bike away. The first mile or two I had a hard time keeping my place slow enough and my legs felt tight. By the third mile I was starting to get tired (and still hungry) but my legs loosened up and I was able to continue. I drank about 15oz of water during the run.
Takeaways:
-Drink every 15 minutes NO MATTER WHAT. I did this on a 4.5 hour ride a few weeks ago and it worked ok. I need to remember to do it on race day.
-Maybe eat an extra cliff bar on the bike towards the end of the ride so I'm not so hungry.
-Force myself to start slower on the run. Really keep my eye on the Garmin for pacing.
-Take care of my leg so I can ride longer in aero.
Moving on to today's swim, I forgot how tired my body is after a RR. I was tired and my back and shoulders were sore so I took it easy and swam a comfortable pace for 30-40 minutes and that was it.
Looking forward to the taper and taking it easy for the next few weeks while my body absorbs all the training and heals.
Have a good week, and I look forward to seeing everyone in a couple of weeks.
@ Donna
Better you know the truth about weather in CDA than to show up and be blasted by something expected. Remember you can not control the weather on race day but you can control how you react to it!
Swam long Sunday instead of Friday (friday ended up being my off day because of work) and piled on another longer run last night. 14 miles in about 1:55 which is a bit slow, but lots of hills on the course I ran. Going to run same loop Thursday in different shoes and compare times. Won't get to ride until tonight and will see how it goes. Other than some general calf tightness I felt pretty good after the run last night!
But I'm very glad to be prepared so thank you for the reality.
I did my RR #2 at a local century ride on Sunday. Weather was ok - low 70s but a horrible headwind for 60 miles which was horrible. But the 40 miles of tailwind were wonderful! I did 107 miles in 6 hrs and was pleased with it. We rode through a rainstorm also which was nice to help with feeling prepared.
I took 3 bottles of my carbopro with me (150 calories in each) and I took Shot Rocks every 20 minutes. I also took a half a banana every 20 miles or so from mile 40 on. I averaged about 200 calories an hour which seems to work well for me and eliminates GI issues.
I had to be careful with hydration though because the cool temps kept me from drinking enough each time I drank (which I try to time every 10 minutes).
The run was good- though I ran too fast - according to the EN plan, I should take the first 6 miles at an 11:05 pace. I just couldn't do it for some reason and ran a 10:12 pace as an average (10;03 for hte first 3 miles). I know that i need to slow it down and will continue to make that my focus since my ONE thing is not to walk as much as I did in the first IM I did.
My other big issue is that I can't seem to get rid of the hot spots during the run - lately I get them really badly on both feet during any run longer than 3 miles on pavement. I'm wearing the same shoes I always have but this is really worrying me. It was excruciating for hte last 3 miles of my RR - to the point where I stopped and really loosened the laces.
Any tips?
Looking forward to the taper as well!!
I did my RR#2 on Sunday. I was in Phoenix roasting on Thurs-Sat.
I picked a different route than RR1. This one had more water/bathrooms, but had more bike traffic (bike path for 40 miles out and 40 miles back). So I had to slow down quite a few times on the way back and wait until I could pass people. Ride time was 6:11, 100 Miles, PNorm was 151, tss 247. VI of 1.07. My goal was 160 watts, so it was a little lower than planned, but I'd rather be a little slower than a little faster. I may adjust my expected watts from 160 to 155, just so I am at .69 IF and not .70. This is my first IM, and I would rather err on the side of caution. The Run was ok. As expected, I had a hard time slowing down to 9:20. I ended up running 9:05's. I only ran for 40 min because of the 90+ temps. After being in Phoenix in the 107 heat, I was just tired of being hot.
Overall, my nutrition went well. I had 3 bottles of 4 scoops of Inifinit. Basically drank half a bottle every hour. Then drank water from my aero bottle. Instead of just the Infinite (like RR1 that didn't work well), I added a powergel every 1:15/1:30 and a piece (almost a half) of powerbar every 2 hours (cause I get hungry). That seems to have gotten rid of the dead legs I experienced at about 3 or 4 hours of RR#1. I may need to make sure I have a gel every 1:15 for the last 3 hours cause I could have used a little more.
The one problem that I had was that I had to pee 5 times. That added about 15 min to the time I was out there. Since I'm a tri newbie, what do people do? I really don't want to stop 5 times to pee. I could see stopping once or twice just to stretch the legs for 2 min, but not 5 times. What do most people do? Do you just pee on the bike? If so, do you 'rinse' off at the aid stations?
Can't wait for the 27th. I joined the local Tri club last month and they all joined a May is bike month site to post their milage for a month. One guy doing IM France did 1100 miles in May and 2 guys doing CDA did 800-850. I think I did 600ish. I think all that long slow distance would bore me to death.
@ Peter - first of all, in that weather, the fact that you stopped every hour for a nature break is a GOOD sign that you had adequate fluid intake - better to overload a bit on the bike than underload when it's 107F. Coach Rich is a big advocate of peeing on the bike, but it's a learned skill, for sure. At my age, I can't seem to learn it, so I stop when I need to. One year (a cooler one) in CDA, I stopped 5-6 times. However, even if you do that, it shouldn't be more than 5 minutes total, (a) there is a porta potti every aid station, every 10 miles, (b) some places (on the lake) there are even more, (c) if you holler as you are rolling up, a volunteer will hold your bike while your inside, and (d) you can down a salt pill or gel while get the job done.
For me, I've found that either from excessive hydrating before the race, or some other factor, the swim fills my bladder, and the cooler temps before 10 AM decrease my fluid needs. There's lots of open cans in T1 (&2), so I take 30 seconds on my way to the bike to empty out. Then, if I start drinking right away on the bike, I'm stopping every hour, But if I ramp up my fluid intake during the first loop of the bike, that slows the flow a bit.
@ Peter -
I just peed on the bike this year at Oceanside - it is kind of difficult to do at first but it gets easier. Its kind of a drag that your shoes smell like urine - as do your tri shorts, saddle, seat post water bottle, etc.
For Couer d' Alene I am not sure if I will do it. I have noticed on rides in the cold ( I did the Gran Fondo San Diego in terrible weather this spring) that I had to pee at every aid station. I think cold temperatures lead to increased vasoconstriction (and probably less evaporative fluid loss) to conserve heat and this leads to increased urine production.
I think hydration is key and depending on ones goals peeing yourself has its advantages and disadvantages. I drank way more this year at Oceanside - and peed several times on the bike. 10' better bike split and 10' better run split. The year before I didn't pee until after the race.
Tom
Peeing on the bike???
Sounds like good podcast material. Also, maybe a training plan line-item for a race rehearsal
"practice peeing on the bike, just like race day without spiking the watts... smooth and steady...."
Peeing on the bike....
Always a topic come race time. My question is really this..."If the 2 minutes to stop and pee at aid station is going to cost you a Kona slot then go for it, otherwise why pee on the bike?" I have tried it and just can not make it happen. Not sure why but just a total mental block!
Hard bike intervals last night. Scrapped the prescribed ride and went to CompuTrainer Studio (8 trainers all hooked together) and did class workout while watching Lakers beat the Celtics. Was way fun having 6 folks in there hammering away while watching game on big tv. Pretty cool actually and the workout was absolutely killer!
Don't mean to break away from the topic du jour, but for the record I can't pee on the bike no matter how hard I try nor how bad I have to go. If I am peeing at all, I'm hydrated and happy and not worried about 5 minutes.
However, I wanted to introduce a new one for those of us who have not ridden the CDA course before. I'm calculating my power zones using the calculator and I don't have a good sense of what sort of bike time range I can expect.
There are several of methods that I've tried/would like to try to figure out a potential time split:
1. During my last to IM races (IMFL 08 and IMLP 09), my bike times werein the top 32% and 58% in my age group. Adjusting for bad poor execution, expected to 45% AG at IMLP. Then adjusting for IMFL being a flat course, my SWAG is top 45% M35-39AG. Applying this to 2007 results (hotter day, i.e. more conservative), I'm thinking a 6:10 is realistic. This is about 3-5 minutes faster than my expectations at LP and 15-20 minutes faster than my actual performance. Assume w/kg, bike set up, etc. all the same.
2. I looked at the Pros. Francisco Potano biked a 4:45 at IMLP in 2008 and 4:40 at IMCDA in 2009. Again, another big leap here, but seems to be a rather equivalent course, plus or minus 5-10 minutes. I've read about the steady climbs of Placid versus the rollers of CDA and understand the importance of watching watts. Assuming you execute your race on target, you seem to come out about the same at IMCDA as IMLP. This reaffirms 6:10 split for me.
3. Based on my prep this year versus last 2 years, I am much closer to where I was for IMFL, so I have a little more confidence that I can shave a little time off my expectations and gets me to a 6:00 - 6:10 range based on the above.
3. Look to my peers. Anyone have experience on both of these courses that you wouldn't mind sharing (in terms of bike splits)?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts,
Dominic
Dominic - I haven't done LP, but last two years I did both CDA and AZ (a lot like FL on the bike course). My w/kg were 3.7-3.8. My times were 6-6:10 @ CDA, and about 30 minutes faster @ AZ. For what it's worth. I'm planning on an IF of 0.7 for the first lap, and try for 0.72 on the second. Added (and important) note - I had a successful run after each of these bikes, all in the range of 4:03-08, with no walking (outside of aid stations).
@ Dominic
Having just moved from CDA and ridden the course literally a 100 times I can tell you that riding conservatively for the 1st lap and building into the 2nd lap is crucial to a successful bike at IMCDA. I have tried it steady state start to finish, hard/easy and easy/build/hard and easy/build/hard is most successful. I have ridden it both with power and without and always seem to be just shy of 6 hours. Not sure why that is, but it just is. For comparitive sakes, I have gone out and tried to drill one lap and have still been in the 2:40 range! This year I am looking to be in the 5:40-5:50 range and still run strong off the bike. I am basing that on .72IF and 285 TSS. I am probably at the lightest I have ever been racing and have managed to not lose my power output.
On another topic....
Run workout today was brutal for me. Ran at 1pm (literally just finished and showered) so I could run in the heat of the day. Made a huge difference! Currently 76 degrees in Westlake Village. HR was elevated, legs fatigued from killer bike session last night and really did not get any lunch in before running! The 2-3x1 mile @ ;TP ended up being 2x1 mile plus a good 3 miles at HMP! Still good work but really difficult. From here on out I will make sure all my runs are happening in the heat of the day just in case CDA ends up a scorcher!
Mon PM - 1 hr of Spinervals (Pain Cave) ... felt great
Tue AM - 1 hr weights followed by 5 mile run w 2 x 1 mi in 6:32 and 6:17
Tue PM - 1 hr of Spinervals (Technique Focus)
Wed AM - 4000 yards in the pool followed by 3 mile run. Massage tonight!
I'm baaack and dropping volume this week. Brian's advice to go easy, build, then go hard seems wise. That will give me one lap to assess the course and make corrections. I have nothing to base an expected race time other than my RPE on the day. Anyone else getting anxious.
Weight: 165
FTP: 260
Expected IF: .70 (180 Watts)
Bike Position: Spot on FIST
Equipment: Guru Crono, Zipp 808, Quarq PM, Specialized TT2 with EN star sticker instead of big "S" on front (pretty sure the sticker will give me at least 8 minutes)
What should my expected bike time look like? Based on my two rehearsals (Santa Cruz to Montara via the 1) I'm looking at 5:45-5:50, is that right?
Well I did my last long run until the 27th. Covered about 13.5 miles. I nearly killed myself to hit the 2 x 20' @ MP but did it. Feel ready to taper and will do today's workout on Friday and Fridays tomorrow. Hope all is going well for everyone else.
Definitely getting anxious and counting down the days.
@ Jorge - From my calculations on my own times over the past 3 years of race rehearsals and races, I find that it's not easy to assign an estimated bike split without having ridden the course. There is no substitute for racing or simulating a race to guage race times IMO. From other posts, you'll even find widely different splits (10-20 mins or more) on the actual course between race rehearsals and the race. What I'm finding is that if I dig through my data, read through race reports, and ask specific questions like you have, I can come up with a rough target. Let me share what I found.
IMFL 2008. RR#1 at Chesapeakeman - very flat, very similar terrain as the Florida course. During the RR I flatted once (1 minute tubular change approx and rode through some 4-5" of water for couple of hundred yards adding additional time.
RR#1 Stats were: w/kg 2.87, TSS 286, IF 0.70, NP 152, VI 1.02, Time 5:50, 111.5 miles. Notes: Rode solo all day, no chance for group draft effect due to very few athletes on course. No run data.
Race Stats: w/kg 2.87, TSS 252, IF 0.689, NP 150, VI 1.02, Time 5:29 (PT clocked 5:21, 110.2 miles). Notes: Definite draft benefits from the packs of 50-60 riders. No significant wind difference from RR. 4:30 run that was 15 min slower than only stand alone mary.
IMLP 2009 RR#2 on IMLP course, 2 loops. Stats: w/kg 2.85, TSS 341.4, IF 0.713, NP 155, VI 1.05, Time 6:44, Distance 112 miles. Notes: Felt like a solid 4 mile run after. Cool conditions, good hydration and nailed fuel plan.
Race Stats: w/kg 2.86, TSS 332.7, IF 0.719, NP 155, VI 1.06, Time: 6:28, 112 miles. 10 degrees hotter, humid conditions. Dehydrated and stopped on course with dry heaves 1 min. Dehydration meant spent most time taking fluids and little calories rest of day. 4:55 run with lots of walking made for a miserable 2nd half of day.
Overall tells me I'm 15-20 minutes faster on race day than in my race rehearsal under similar conditions, even when I'm suffering on the bike as at IMLP. Also, bike set up, kit, heltme, etc. was exactly the same for each effort.
IMCDA RR#1 on home course, don't have the elevation, but more climbing than I experienced at LP. RR#1 stats: w/kg 2.91, TSS 296, IF 0.698, NP 157, VI 1.04, Time 6:06, Distance 94.7 miles. Notes: mid-70's temps, poor hydration again. No run data, but didn't feel like I could have a great run at 300 TSS and dehydrated.
Given my research, forum posts, and especially feedback from Al and Bryan above on similar type courses, I'm going to guesstimate that I will ride 6:10 +/- 10 min. A lot of that is SWAG; e.g w/kg est at 3.01, good experience with steady power, consistent training, more confidence in my ability, etc. That is going to give me roughly 300 TSS given my time on the course at 69-70% FTP. Bottom line is it's still SWAG, and I'm going to have to stay in the box, stay hydrated and constantly evaluate how I feel all day. How much confidence does that give me that I'm accurate on time? Still not a lot, but I believe I can manage my race based on past experience.
Not sure that helps you, but that's how I'm approaching the problem and hope you can take something from that.
Dom
There are a number of reasons why you WILL be faster on race day than in RR, even at the same power levels. For one thing, your bike setup will be different; you may have a disc cover or wheel, you may carry less fluid, etc with you (will weigh less), relying more on aid stations, you may have an aero helmet and slicker race outfit. You will get a slight but real draft effect from all the cyclists on the road in front of you. You will not have to slow as much for corners, and not at all for cross streets or traffic lights. Most important, you will be both more rested and more fit than you are for the RR. My RRs of 5:53/105 mi and 5:56/107 pencil out to 6:11-6:15 for 112 miles; so I think 6 hours is a good conservative estimate for my ride.
So, Jorge, I suggest using your RR numbers to predict your race time, probably dropping 15 minutes from what you were able to do in those rehearsals, then staying near the border of the green and yellow zones on the EN TSS race day spread sheet ("Legs Bank Account)".
And if anyone hasn't already seen this, Coach Rich has posted updated advice for ENers riding longer than 6 hours in an IM, to refine that spreadsheet for them.