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Tracking data from the Garmin 310xt
I know there has been a great deal said about how WKO+ inaccurately records Garmin 310xt data. It appears that the issue is on the Training Peaks end and they say they're working on it. In the interim, how are you 310 users recording and tracking data?
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What you'll want to do is have your 310xt transfer the workout data to Garmin Training Center. Then you'll save that file off somewhere that you can then upload it into WKO+. I leave my ANT+ stick plugged into my computer so that when I walk in the door after a run the data transfer starts. By the time I get to the computer GTC is launched. From there I export that workout's file to my desktop and then open WKO+ and make sure that I'm on my athlete page. Then I select File/Open Workout in the dialog box that opens up I navigate to Desktop and then find the .tcx file that I want. I click on that and then it transfers into WKO+. Sounds like a lot of steps, but it's pretty easy and quick and all of my data transfers flawlessly.
I love that I sound all smart and stuff....I only know this because of the sage teachings of John Stark, Nemo, Maryka, etc....
Does that help?
That's what I was doing, but the numbers in WKO+ are considerably off from those numbers in GTC and Garmin connect. Right now I just refer to the info in Garmin Connect (as GTC doesn't show power), but I'm obviously limiting workout analysis without WKO+. Is there away to set the 310xt so that my power and pace numbers are consistant between GTC/GC and WKO?
Uuummmmmmm?? I'll have to check it out as I have only had one time where the numbers were way wacked out and I did not know why. But the only difference I noticed the time it did that was I waited to tranfer the data about a week after the workouts. All other workouts I have the stick ready to retreive data as i walk in the house also. When I do that the numbers have been real close, at least as close as the 305 was before. But I'll investigate too to see what we can find out.
Short answer to your last question? Not really. Some numbers in WKO+ are accurate, but other variables that go into some of the calculations get wonked. There are also differences with how the LYC/Garmin/WKO deal with pauses/stops/etc. that confuses things.
I haven't noticed any problems with the 310 xt and wko plus. To say it is not compatible is misleading at best. It will not directly download to sko plus is what that should say. You just transfer to garmin connect, export the file to the desktop [or wherever] and then open the file in wko plus. At worst an extra step but no wires needed and it transfers the data to the pc automatically so it is a wash on the time it takes. The laps I have compared data from using the PT computer and the garmin were essentially identical. I posted a bunch of them when I first got the garmin this summer, check them out.
Some had some issues, there were a bunch of posts on the subject, Read the technical reasons and analysis posted by Smyrka, they are extensive.
As for run data it is perfect and the files are no issues in wko plus, same as any garmin run files.
My only issues with the garmin as a power head unit is that it is not as easy to see on my wrist as a regular one is on the bike and the power number displayed tend to lag a couple of seconds [if that] behind the number shown on the PT computer. The visibility issue could be fixed if I bough the quick release and bike mount. I have not done so as I do not really care and use the pt.
If I were to buy a quarq or similar I would buy the 705 to use as a bike computer and the 310 for running/racing. That was you will always have a backup and the 705 is cool. The joule and the new quarq thing may be even better, time will tell.
You should probably mention that to the people that make WKO+ then - since they're the ones that said the "310XT is NOT compatible with WKO+ at this time" on their website.
For those of you using the Garmin connect upload/download routine to get your 310xt files into WKO+ I have a suggestion for a shortcut that I use which avoids the Garmin Connect (and Garmin Training Center) detour altogether.
Your actual TCX files are stored on your computer (and then uploaded to GC). So why not just get them from you local Hard Drive rather than GC or GTC?
Where are the files located you ask?
On windows:
C:Documents and Settings%user%Application DataGARMINDevices%serial%History
Where %user% is your windows username and %serial% is the unique serial number of your Garmin device. Navigating to C:Documents and Settings%user%Application DataGARMINDevices and then find your device and make a shortcut to the History folder and put it on your Desktop
On a Mac:
/Users/%user%/Library/Application Support/Garmin/Devices/%serial%/History
Where %user% is your Mac username and %serial% is the unique serial number of your Garmin device. Navigate to /Users/%user%/Library/Application Support/Garmin/Devices/ and then find your device and make an alias to the History folder and put it on your Desktop
So you know where your training files are, now all you need yo do is open the correct file from WKO by navigating to that History folder on your Desktop and opening the right file (they are named by date and time - ex: 2009-11-01-102441.TCX).
Hope this information saves you some time.
Cary Blanco
I have no issue with the extra step required for importing data to WKO, but the power and pace is off in every workout I have imported. I have used the 305 and the 705 and never had that problem. Changing the recording rate did not appear to help. Training Peaks has stated that WKO is not compatible with WKO and, in my opinion, if the data is just slightly off then it is incompatible. I still love the 310 as it has so many useful features and as soon as WKO resolves the 310 issues I'll be upgrading (as WKO is the best analysis tool). Until then I'll just continue with the limited analysis I get from Garmin Connect.
Thanks for all the information. EN is certainly filled with a bunch of smart, informed and passionate people. Thanks again.
Sorry if my post came off a little harsh, that was not the intention. Just trying to interject a counterpoint that the thing is a viable power head unit just the way it is. We need to keep in mind that just because data is a little different than from another source does not mean it is useless as a power pace tool. The precision and/or accuracy of any of these tools is questionable at best. Repeatability is the key and there is no reason to think that the 310 is not recording power/pace the same [possibly "flawed"] way each time, is there?
I take this from the perspective that we all know that no 2 power meters read the same, they are all "estimators" of some sort, measure in different ways, different locations, transmit data, record a bit different. Further, power numbers are pretty much useless when comparing with others and attempting to draw conclusions about how they will translate into race times other than in the broadest terms. Ever meet someone with a huge FTP, w/kg and then have them be slower than dog water on the fourth of July?
As such, how can we say that NP coming from the 705, yellow box whatever is "on" and that from a 310 is "off". It is not a real number anyway right? WKO takes estimated/averaged values from a file and runs them through a formula, right? AC made it up because he thought it would be a better way of estimating the actual work done in a ride right? Seems to be a good thing but lets now lose sight of what it is. Getting a little OT but I hope the point is clear. Regardless, good discussion.
Paging Lakerfan and Cramer for their thoughts...
Also as far as power is concerned has anyone though about creating a free training peaks account, uploading their 310xt data to training peaks, then downloading and brining it in to WKO+ ? Yes, this is another one of those crazy workaround approaches, but it might correct the issue.
I just got a new Quark and 310xt. After hours of trying to get the ANT stick to download my data (I'm on Mac with Parallels) I was finally able to get it all to work and open the .TCX files in WKO. The NP in WKO was approximately 10 watts lower that the average power from Garmin Connect. I guess this makes sense given that the 310 isn't supported by WKO.
My concern is that I'm getting ready to do a new FTP test tomorrow and am not at all sure how I will use the data. During the test, I won't worry about the real time watts, just go hard. Then I can get the NP from the 2(20+2) test range to set my new FTP. The problem is in subsequent workouts. If I am watching watts while riding, but those are lower when viewed in WKO, how do I reconcile the FTP? Should I just hit the lap function on the 310 for the 2(20+2) test and then take the avg power for the lap from Garmin Connnect and use that for my FTP? At least that way I will be able to do the workouts off of the test.
I used to have an Ergomo that displayed NP and TSS while riding and really miss it! I heard the new Garmin 500 will display NP and TSS. Anyway, thoughts and advice appreciated.
Mark
I'm on a Mac too (I've switched to VMware fusion from Parallels though). I do the ANT+ syncing on the Mac OS X side and then grab the TCX file and bring it over to Windows for import to WKO+ This helps to eliminate one level of cross-platform driver headaches, and I know my raw data is getting backed up by Time Machine on the Mac side.
I have not heard that the Garmin Edge 500 will do NP & TSS. I believe this is a licensing issue. It'd be great if Garmin could add NP TSS and IF to the 310xt and the Edge 705, but I wouldn't count on them paying for the right to use those terms. The closest we'll probably get is the 3 and 30 second moving averages that are on the Edge 705. Hope I'm wrong.
No worries at all Chris - I didn't take it that way. To read my post without the context of the supporting web page, I can see how my post could easily be misinterpreted. I do think the 310XT/PT combo is more than good enough for most people's purposes (including mine, which is why I use it!), but I think it's good to be aware of the caveats and carefully think about the numbers you're seeing with any device. I also think it will just keep getting better.
Great .tcx point Cary that can smooth workflow a bit. I used to think that you had to generate the tcx file using "Export" - not that it was sitting their natively the whole time.
I think Rick's initial point had more to deal with the fact that the Garmin data is reported differently between two applications, even though it's the exact same data set, and not that he was comparing two different measuring tools (310xt vs. Yellow computer)
I haven't seen this problem with my data, but I know others have. I also haven't done a lot of outdoor riding with both recently, and almost all my rides from last season with the two were steady-state efforts and not interval sessions. There was one theory floating around that you'll see much bigger deltas between the two programs (Garmin Connect and WKO+) with interval workouts - a big issue if you do EN-style programs obviously.
So the real question is whose interpretation of the 310xt data do you believe, Garmin Connect or WKO+? If both programs are looking at the exact same file and one of them tells me my average power for a 10' interval is 190w and the other one says it was 208w that's a pretty significant difference. Remember this isn't two different devices, this is the SAME device it's just how the two programs are reporting the data after the fact. This is obviously going to be an issue for anyone who really needs to know what watts they should actually be riding at. Since GC doesn't do NP, there's a bit of dilemna especially if you consider GC the better product for getting Garmin data correct. If WKO+ is interpreting the data incorrectly, and you use it to determine your FTP and then try to use those numbers on your next ride while watching your 310xt you could be in for a world of problems.