@Becky - Great result for running through some tough times, feel better! I need to drop some lbs too, so we're in a similar spot in that regards too. I am in for some friendly wagering - that would help me work harder!! :-)
Got it done. I'm so pumped to. Last season my best before my A race was about 22:45, I did a 20:54 tonight on a 200m track. I can't tell you how happy I am. My plan was to divide in my head by 1000's and hope to hit around 4:05-4:20 per. It went down like this, 4:07, 4:10, 4:13, 4:13, 4:08. After the first 2 I was a bit worried, usually I don't start moaning and grunting until the last few minutes...not tonight. The shirt came off and I was singing like a choir boy (yes, thankfully I was alone at that point). The key for me tonight was to keep the form, I concentrate very hard on bringing my heels up to my upper hammy and not forgetting the knee lift while forcing my head forward because when I get fatigued, it tends to go back. Usually cadence takes care of itself at that point, I just have to hold on. I would say that I did. The kick in the groin was when I started to get tightness in the upper left quadrant of my back, it made me take shallow breaths and grunt even louder. In any event, it was a success! Let's get this party started. Oh, and Al, I'm having the same problem, and Tech Guy said he was on it....
I want to give a HUGE shout out to John S., Beth S., and Alek T. from the running thread, you all are at least half responsible for this performance by keeping me running. I have no idea what that time would have been if I had run like I biked this fall!!! THANK YOU!!!
@Dan- Your post has made me smile really BIG! I am so happy for you! We all did work our arses off this Fall and much good has come from it. It has been an honor to be on the road with ya. You are an inspiration!
In 4 weeks I expect a sub-20. But no pressure.
@Al - I posted this issue the other day and so have others. Coach P noted that they are working on a bug fix and it should be rectified soon.
Well here it goes, I did a out and back in my local neighberhood. I did not get my miles splits because I set up my Garmin during the run as a workout and it did not record it in splits just a one lap of 3.1 oh well leason learned. I got it done in 23:20 with a vdot of 41. Avg pace was 7:31 and avg Run candence was 95 with a LTHR of 168. I am up one point from December because I did the first 4 weeks with them.
Thank you men. I'm having trouble getting tired, I'm pretty pumped, so probably no sleep tonight! @Al: I really had to concentrate on pushing out of the turns, its not a racing track, just one above a gym, it is truly like running a rectangle. Thanks Mike, I can only hope to get to your speed! And John, good times to come, we'll get it done brother.
"Tracy, you tested right? Must have been when I was lurking in the ladeeyz lounge. What a rough year you had in 2010, onward and upward in 2011!"
Dave-Yes, i did test. Was having a hard time transferring data from 310XT. I did a resolution run on saturday. My 1st 5 k in awhile.I worked friday night ( very busy in traumaland) then slept 4 hrs. Probably not best way to test but......
Time 32:45 which is slow for me, but I'm running A good lesson in pacing, and a battle with my brain- my brain wanted to go faster and kept pushing. My garmin died at the end too! I put it on charger when i got home from work, but probably was not connected. it died in last 1/4 mile.
1st mile 9:45.31 ( I knew I was going too fast for where I am at now, talking to myself to slow down, but I wasn't. At 1 mile, walked 30 sec to slow down,
2nd mile 11:24.36- a hill showed up ( not familiar with this course), I power walked part of hill pace was 11: 24
.98 mile-9:58.44- then watch died
My Vdot is 27.7 I am not ready to do speed work yet, I need to be real careful about crossing that line that gets me injured. Still need to work on getting my post tib tendon stronger and 100% pain/"soreness" free.
Little behind on the check-in but it's been a very long day. My first 5k test is in the books and it was even worse than my FTP test. I must say I'm really disappointed in my time but am going to blame it on the downpour because that makes me feel better lol.
33:11 for 3.11 mi (11:00. 10:54, 10:09 +1:03)....vDot 27.3
.....you guys are all studs and I aspire to be like you.....ONWARD AND UPWARD!!!!
Off to Orlando in the morning for the Goofy Challenge this weekend (hopefully today's test is no indicator of how the weekend will go)....so I won't be doing the typical workouts for the weekend and will probably have to mod the runs a bit for a week or two but there is nowhere to go but up.
Had to skip the bike test eariler in the week but got the run test done yesterday. I've been an almost total slacker since running Beach 2 Battleship in Nov so I figured I would lose a fair amount of fitness. Last pre-race test gave me a VDOT of 56.1 and I expected around 19 - 19:30 for VDOT of 51-52. I was pleasantly surprised with an 18:29 and VDOT of 54.6.
As kind of a runner who does tri's, I expect far less positive results on the bike...
Curious what people's thoughts are on fudging test results. I was shooting for a sub-20 5k in my test and failed. I've done enough running and know the answer was that I just picked a pace that was a little too fast for me (it was on a treadmill). What I'm thinking is I will just start my training with an assumed VDOT of 48.5. That would equate to a 5k test of 20:30. I think that may still be a little low, but will give me a good starting point for paces and start building some speed. That gives me a chance to work on it until mid-February when there is a good 5k race here that I can test again, and get a better result. The treadmill is great for my training, but you really don't have much wiggle room to go faster or slower if things are going good/bad.
My $ 0.02: Go with your tested results unless you are absolutely convinced they're screwy, in which case your better off re-testing. If you're going to fudge, fudge a little low as training too fast will set up for injury. You may leave a little potential fitness on the table but you've got a good test coming up in Feb and can adjust from that. Look at the risk/reward ratio for fudging high:
Reward: A potentially slightly higher VDOT six weeks from now
Risk: A subpar entire season due to a nagging injury induced while training too hard, too early. (Been there, done that, it sux.)
@Tom. . . +1 on @Logan's advice. IMHO it is better to adjust lower than higher - Daniels' running even suggests that training at a higher vdot score than you're tested or capable of is not a question of 'if' but 'when' an injury will happen. @Logan. . .great run man!! I want to crack 20min one day so it's inspiring to me when I read about my teammates running under the 20min mark.
@ Tom - If you've done a lot of 5Ks and have a good data base to draw from the past few years...if you routinely can run in the 20:30 range, then a VDOT of 48.5 seems safe. I know EVERY 5K race I've ever done in the past 5 years has been between 20:06 and 20:24. But two caveats: this year I lost ALL my fitness from Sept-Dec, so I stuck with the 22:15 test I did on our local bike path two weeks ago, meaning, if you have not been running regularly, and saw a drop off, you might want to build from that test result for 4 weeks before re-testing to find you are back to your usual zone. And # 2, on treadmills, we all have our own "fudge factor" compared to outdoors, even with an incline programmed in. You need to figure that one out with trial and error.
"Could" vs. "should" applies to this testing protocols as well as bike splits in the race. "I couda went a 21:30, if I hadn't gone out so fast on the first 1.5 K of my test, so I'll just go with that instead of the 22:15 I should use" is what I was tempted to say after that test, but in my heart, I knew I was way out of shape, and it wasn't going out too fast that was the problem, it was not having the fitness to sustain even a none-to-fast pace for 20 minutes.
@Tom - I agree with what's been said above... better off to retest or go low. I was afraid of a treadmill test for the same reason and am very glad the weather cooperated and I could run outside (well, i also took a day off... bc of the personal stuff).
@Tracy - congrats again on running! so glad you're getting healthy! just think, not that long ago you were in a boot!
@Al - I;ve been having probs getting email updates for a very long time... particularly on super active threads (this one, the women's thread)... admin knows
As for me, it's a fine line between sad and mad... but during the test all I noticed was pain...the sad is turning more mad as days go by so hopefully that will channel into some quality sweat sessions!
@Dan, I am so happy for you. You are an inspiration. It is a great way to start the OS. It was awesome running with you, John and Beth. Truly kept me going. Looking forward continuing it together. Beth keeps rocking, our buddy John is going to get back on track sooner than he thinks. Looking forward to reading about his running too. Yep, the test did not go as well as he thought, but it happens like that more often than he thinks.
Didn't get my run test done until this morning, but am generally happy with the results all things considered (minimal running since 13.1 DNF in late November, alone, 5:30 a.m., in the cold, fighting a cold). 24:46 for a vDot of 38, avg HR of 189 (maxed at 203!).
Surprisingly that time is generally in line with the last two open 5Ks I ran (both last September). Avg HR in both of those 5Ks was 184, so I was a little higher here which may not be too surprising given the layoff and my anxiety). Max HR is 8 to 12 beats higher than those races. Over the next few weeks, I would expect both numbers to edge down to where they were last September.
I know HR is different for everyone, but anyone concerned about those HRs as I plan going forward?
In the event of a conflict between HR zone and pace during a run, which one do I go with?
@ Al - when I joined the group there was a dialogue box in the upper right corner with a half-dozen options to check...i.e., which things did I want to receive e-mail notification. I must have joined from a different menu area than you.
@ Al - when I joined the group there was a dialogue box in the upper right corner with a half-dozen options to check...i.e., which things did I want to receive e-mail notification. I must have joined from a different menu area than you.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I used the Attackpoint calculator and checked what it said my results are vs. what I was thinking:
2 miles @ 12:56 = vDOT 48.05 (actual) 3.1 miles @ 20:00 = vDOT 49.67 (assumed at test time-FAIL)
3.1 miles @ vDOT 48.05 = 20:37 3.1 miles @ vDOT 48.5 = 20:28
I would be comfortable in the past saying that I would expect much faster times (typical 5k time in sprint tri < 19:30), BUT I have been off from running for a while due to some plantar problems. I'll stick with the vDOT=48.05 I tested. Especially since I'm still easing into regular workouts and trying to get more regular with my time. I would hate to start with an injury!
Now if I can just get to the end of the OS and be pushing 53 I would be ecstatic! I have a nice 20km with my name on it.
@Daavid - don't be too concerned if those are HR numbers you're used to seeing. MY HR runs crazy high, too... think I averaged 188 for my 5k. Once upon a time working with a trainer at the gym doing a treadmill test as it was approaching and surpassing 200 before I had to jump off the treadmill, he just kinda shrugged and said, oh you're one of those... I was obviously not near death, my numbers just get way way up there. My resting is low and my doc tells me all the time she wishes she had my blood pressure - so I know I'm okay. As long as you didn't think you were gonna go into cardiac arrest or throw up a lung, I think you're just one of those crazy people, but you're in good company!
FWIW, mine isn't that high on the bike, but I suspect comparatively, it's stil higher than most folks'
5K run test, and it was about as good as it gets…well, not so much for the speed, which still needs work, but for the actual test itself...so very happy about that, since it's my first 'test' in years
400M track, I clicked the lap timer, every 4 laps, so the time and average heart rates were:
#1: 8:12, 145HR avg, 149HR max
#2: 8:11, 152HR avg, 154HR max
#3: 8:06, 155HR avg, 158HR max
last 200 meters: :58, 157HR avg, 158HR max
So I had it cranked up to the top, and still eked out a negative split run
My pacing was eerily consistent, and almost exactly what I thought it might be in a blog Post that I wrote a month ago, after a 5K sub-maximal run during a workout on a rolling route:
I used this prediction as the basis for my initial pacing in the test yesterday, and ended up with the 5K at 25:28…at an average pace of 8:12 per mile…and a 37 vDOT
@ Steve - Consistency is cool - I always assume that's a sign you're letting your body and not your mind take charge during the "race" (test). And your body knows best - your mind will just slow you down.
I wish I could get my daughter to race with me - we run together (when she's home) and we're just the same speed, butshe's a bit younger - 20, so there's time, I guess.
Congrats everyone for finishing the bike test. Great to see everyone's hard efforts.
I did my run test this morning... not as good as I hoped as I had a higher number in Oct OS when I first started all this fun stuff! I have not done much running though since Thanksgiving, and the numbers show.
Anyway, started off great and ended sucking wind! 27:36, avg pace of 8:54 , LTHR 161, VDOT 34. Room for improvement...let's get running!
@Al, I really didn't know what to expect from the run test since I haven't done one in a couple of years...although I'm a 'numbers' guy, so was very happy that I got the pacing correct when number 'theories' were put to the test.
When my daughter decided to do Ironman Florida again with me this year, I've found it to be really invigorating...this past year preparing for IM #4, I was having trouble with 'purpose'...like is-that-all-there-is stuff...I'm now back to time goals, and all of that, so it's all good.
Let me know if your daughter decides to join you in a race...it's _really_ cool...for both
Comments
Got it done. I'm so pumped to. Last season my best before my A race was about 22:45, I did a 20:54 tonight on a 200m track. I can't tell you how happy I am. My plan was to divide in my head by 1000's and hope to hit around 4:05-4:20 per. It went down like this, 4:07, 4:10, 4:13, 4:13, 4:08. After the first 2 I was a bit worried, usually I don't start moaning and grunting until the last few minutes...not tonight. The shirt came off and I was singing like a choir boy (yes, thankfully I was alone at that point). The key for me tonight was to keep the form, I concentrate very hard on bringing my heels up to my upper hammy and not forgetting the knee lift while forcing my head forward because when I get fatigued, it tends to go back. Usually cadence takes care of itself at that point, I just have to hold on. I would say that I did. The kick in the groin was when I started to get tightness in the upper left quadrant of my back, it made me take shallow breaths and grunt even louder. In any event, it was a success! Let's get this party started. Oh, and Al, I'm having the same problem, and Tech Guy said he was on it....
I want to give a HUGE shout out to John S., Beth S., and Alek T. from the running thread, you all are at least half responsible for this performance by keeping me running. I have no idea what that time would have been if I had run like I biked this fall!!! THANK YOU!!!
Dan
@ Dan, your head must have been spinning, in more ways than one - an awesome time drop, and on a 200 m track - a lotta curves!
@Dan- Your post has made me smile really BIG!
I am so happy for you! We all did work our arses off this Fall and much good has come from it. It has been an honor to be on the road with ya. You are an inspiration!
In 4 weeks I expect a sub-20.
But no pressure.
@Al - I posted this issue the other day and so have others. Coach P noted that they are working on a bug fix and it should be rectified soon.
Well here it goes, I did a out and back in my local neighberhood. I did not get my miles splits because I set up my Garmin during the run as a workout and it did not record it in splits just a one lap of 3.1 oh well leason learned. I got it done in 23:20 with a vdot of 41. Avg pace was 7:31 and avg Run candence was 95 with a LTHR of 168. I am up one point from December because I did the first 4 weeks with them.
Thank you men. I'm having trouble getting tired, I'm pretty pumped, so probably no sleep tonight! @Al: I really had to concentrate on pushing out of the turns, its not a racing track, just one above a gym, it is truly like running a rectangle. Thanks Mike, I can only hope to get to your speed! And John, good times to come, we'll get it done brother.
"Tracy, you tested right? Must have been when I was lurking in the ladeeyz lounge. What a rough year you had in 2010, onward and upward in 2011!"
Dave-Yes, i did test. Was having a hard time transferring data from 310XT. I did a resolution run on saturday. My 1st 5 k in awhile
.I worked friday night ( very busy in traumaland) then slept 4 hrs. Probably not best way to test but......
Time 32:45 which is slow for me, but I'm running
A good lesson in pacing, and a battle with my brain- my brain wanted to go faster and kept pushing. My garmin died at the end too! I put it on charger when i got home from work, but probably was not connected. it died in last 1/4 mile.
1st mile 9:45.31 ( I knew I was going too fast for where I am at now, talking to myself to slow down, but I wasn't. At 1 mile, walked 30 sec to slow down,
2nd mile 11:24.36- a hill showed up ( not familiar with this course), I power walked part of hill pace was 11: 24
.98 mile-9:58.44- then watch died
My Vdot is 27.7 I am not ready to do speed work yet, I need to be real careful about crossing that line that gets me injured. Still need to work on getting my post tib tendon stronger and 100% pain/"soreness" free.
I know 2011 is going to be great!
Great Job everyone!
33:11 for 3.11 mi (11:00. 10:54, 10:09 +1:03)....vDot 27.3
.....you guys are all studs and I aspire to be like you.....ONWARD AND UPWARD!!!!
Off to Orlando in the morning for the Goofy Challenge this weekend (hopefully today's test is no indicator of how the weekend will go)....so I won't be doing the typical workouts for the weekend and will probably have to mod the runs a bit for a week or two but there is nowhere to go but up.
Great job to everyone who has tested!!
Had to skip the bike test eariler in the week but got the run test done yesterday. I've been an almost total slacker since running Beach 2 Battleship in Nov so I figured I would lose a fair amount of fitness. Last pre-race test gave me a VDOT of 56.1 and I expected around 19 - 19:30 for VDOT of 51-52. I was pleasantly surprised with an 18:29 and VDOT of 54.6.
As kind of a runner who does tri's, I expect far less positive results on the bike...
My $ 0.02: Go with your tested results unless you are absolutely convinced they're screwy, in which case your better off re-testing. If you're going to fudge, fudge a little low as training too fast will set up for injury. You may leave a little potential fitness on the table but you've got a good test coming up in Feb and can adjust from that. Look at the risk/reward ratio for fudging high:
Reward: A potentially slightly higher VDOT six weeks from now
Risk: A subpar entire season due to a nagging injury induced while training too hard, too early. (Been there, done that, it sux.)
+2 what Logan said and Daniels advice. Best not to over-reach. Especially in the first weeks of OS.
@ Tom - If you've done a lot of 5Ks and have a good data base to draw from the past few years...if you routinely can run in the 20:30 range, then a VDOT of 48.5 seems safe. I know EVERY 5K race I've ever done in the past 5 years has been between 20:06 and 20:24. But two caveats: this year I lost ALL my fitness from Sept-Dec, so I stuck with the 22:15 test I did on our local bike path two weeks ago, meaning, if you have not been running regularly, and saw a drop off, you might want to build from that test result for 4 weeks before re-testing to find you are back to your usual zone. And # 2, on treadmills, we all have our own "fudge factor" compared to outdoors, even with an incline programmed in. You need to figure that one out with trial and error.
"Could" vs. "should" applies to this testing protocols as well as bike splits in the race. "I couda went a 21:30, if I hadn't gone out so fast on the first 1.5 K of my test, so I'll just go with that instead of the 22:15 I should use" is what I was tempted to say after that test, but in my heart, I knew I was way out of shape, and it wasn't going out too fast that was the problem, it was not having the fitness to sustain even a none-to-fast pace for 20 minutes.
@Tom - I agree with what's been said above... better off to retest or go low. I was afraid of a treadmill test for the same reason and am very glad the weather cooperated and I could run outside (well, i also took a day off... bc of the personal stuff).
@Tracy - congrats again on running! so glad you're getting healthy! just think, not that long ago you were in a boot!
@Virginia - have fun at Goofy!
@Al - I;ve been having probs getting email updates for a very long time... particularly on super active threads (this one, the women's thread)... admin knows
As for me, it's a fine line between sad and mad... but during the test all I noticed was pain...the sad is turning more mad as days go by so hopefully that will channel into some quality sweat sessions!
@Dan, I am so happy for you. You are an inspiration. It is a great way to start the OS. It was awesome running with you, John and Beth. Truly kept me going. Looking forward continuing it together. Beth keeps rocking, our buddy John is going to get back on track sooner than he thinks. Looking forward to reading about his running too. Yep, the test did not go as well as he thought, but it happens like that more often than he thinks.
Keep up the work Dan.
Didn't get my run test done until this morning, but am generally happy with the results all things considered (minimal running since 13.1 DNF in late November, alone, 5:30 a.m., in the cold, fighting a cold). 24:46 for a vDot of 38, avg HR of 189 (maxed at 203!).
Surprisingly that time is generally in line with the last two open 5Ks I ran (both last September). Avg HR in both of those 5Ks was 184, so I was a little higher here which may not be too surprising given the layoff and my anxiety). Max HR is 8 to 12 beats higher than those races. Over the next few weeks, I would expect both numbers to edge down to where they were last September.
I know HR is different for everyone, but anyone concerned about those HRs as I plan going forward?
In the event of a conflict between HR zone and pace during a run, which one do I go with?
anybody knows about a fix?
lies, dey all LIES!!!!!
I'm up for a wager, as long as we get to "age correct".....
Wiseman
2 miles @ 12:56 = vDOT 48.05 (actual)
3.1 miles @ 20:00 = vDOT 49.67 (assumed at test time-FAIL)
3.1 miles @ vDOT 48.05 = 20:37
3.1 miles @ vDOT 48.5 = 20:28
I would be comfortable in the past saying that I would expect much faster times (typical 5k time in sprint tri < 19:30), BUT I have been off from running for a while due to some plantar problems. I'll stick with the vDOT=48.05 I tested. Especially since I'm still easing into regular workouts and trying to get more regular with my time. I would hate to start with an injury!
Now if I can just get to the end of the OS and be pushing 53 I would be ecstatic! I have a nice 20km with my name on it.
@Daavid - don't be too concerned if those are HR numbers you're used to seeing. MY HR runs crazy high, too... think I averaged 188 for my 5k. Once upon a time working with a trainer at the gym doing a treadmill test as it was approaching and surpassing 200 before I had to jump off the treadmill, he just kinda shrugged and said, oh you're one of those... I was obviously not near death, my numbers just get way way up there. My resting is low and my doc tells me all the time she wishes she had my blood pressure - so I know I'm okay. As long as you didn't think you were gonna go into cardiac arrest or throw up a lung, I think you're just one of those crazy people, but you're in good company!
FWIW, mine isn't that high on the bike, but I suspect comparatively, it's stil higher than most folks'
5K run test, and it was about as good as it gets…well, not so much for the speed, which still needs work, but for the actual test itself...so very happy about that, since it's my first 'test' in years
400M track, I clicked the lap timer, every 4 laps, so the time and average heart rates were:
#1: 8:12, 145HR avg, 149HR max
#2: 8:11, 152HR avg, 154HR max
#3: 8:06, 155HR avg, 158HR max
last 200 meters: :58, 157HR avg, 158HR max
So I had it cranked up to the top, and still eked out a negative split run
My pacing was eerily consistent, and almost exactly what I thought it might be in a blog Post that I wrote a month ago, after a 5K sub-maximal run during a workout on a rolling route:
http://www.irondaughterirondad.com/...-up-a-bit/
I used this prediction as the basis for my initial pacing in the test yesterday, and ended up with the 5K at 25:28…at an average pace of 8:12 per mile…and a 37 vDOT
Cool...now to move it up with EN Kool-Aid
@ Steve - Consistency is cool - I always assume that's a sign you're letting your body and not your mind take charge during the "race" (test). And your body knows best - your mind will just slow you down.
I wish I could get my daughter to race with me - we run together (when she's home) and we're just the same speed, butshe's a bit younger - 20, so there's time, I guess.
Congrats everyone for finishing the bike test. Great to see everyone's hard efforts.
I did my run test this morning... not as good as I hoped as I had a higher number in Oct OS when I first started all this fun stuff! I have not done much running though since Thanksgiving, and the numbers show.
Anyway, started off great and ended sucking wind! 27:36, avg pace of 8:54 , LTHR 161, VDOT 34. Room for improvement...let's get running!
Doing Thursday workout tomorrow am.
Happy Training!
@Al, I really didn't know what to expect from the run test since I haven't done one in a couple of years...although I'm a 'numbers' guy, so was very happy that I got the pacing correct when number 'theories' were put to the test.
When my daughter decided to do Ironman Florida again with me this year, I've found it to be really invigorating...this past year preparing for IM #4, I was having trouble with 'purpose'...like is-that-all-there-is stuff...I'm now back to time goals, and all of that, so it's all good.
Let me know if your daughter decides to join you in a race...it's _really_ cool...for both
Keep it up Dana, if you were in good shape in Oct. you'd be amazed at how fast you can regain that running fitness....