Experimentation with HIM race distance

jhpiii

I have raced 5 HIM's and have had severe hamstring cramping in all of them. One of the changes this offseason will be yoga to work on flexibility.

Beyond that, I decided to experiment with the distance in my training this offseason. I am thinking about doing a "private" (i.e. non-race) HIM once a month, experimenting with different pacing and nutrition strategies until I can find some solutions.

Is there any reason I should NOT do this, like injury possibilities, major training plan disruptions, etc? Any comments would be appreciated.

John 

jwpicciotto

Is your intention in the Private HIM's to perform at race pace? If so then you are going to find yourself with recovery issues. Placing that much stress on your body month after month is more than most of us age groupers can handle and does set you up for injury. You might look at trying to figure out what the underlying cause of the "cramps" is. If they are not related to electrolyte depletion, then they may indicate a bio-mechanical imbalance. Placing too much stress on the muscles generates excess fatigue leading to the muscle seizing up.

jhpiii

John- Thanks for your response. Yes, I was thinking of doing them at race pace because that is the only time I can replicate the cramping. I do not have the same issues during workouts or race rehearsals. But maybe I need to back off to once every 6 to 8 weeks? I don't know for sure that it is not electrolytes, but I have ramped up to about 1600 mg per hour. But that is one of the things I will be experimenting with too.

Paul Hough

Pickle Juice Sport ... seriously! Plus the yoga, plus more intense bike rides. Doesn't have to be a weekly HIM, but you have got to hammer in the heat, and throw in an occassional over distance ride.

Peter Greagg

x2 what Paul said.
FWIW, I find an occassional 60 mins bike @ 0.9 IF a great WO as it's way faster than my HIM bike but doesn't kill me recovery-wise. That said, I don't do them more than once a month, or closer than 4 weeks from an A(ish) race.

cgres123

@ John, For me a long run past 1hr 30min is training for something i.e. specific stuff. I would take me closer to 2 hours for a HM. Doing a HIM once a month is a large commitment for a family person anytime. The OS should be about about raising your FTP etc, you know the drill you been around here long enough. I guess my 2 cent is can you wrap your head around that kind of fitness commitment for the OS then go into your season 2013 ?

You can do anything you like but you will lose the beauty of peroidization for the season and may burnout or just have an OHum season. There are other ways to figure out you physical problems other than what your suggesting.

D

jhpiii

Paul. From your suggestion, I actually tried Pickle Juice Sport at my last race. Was already cramping but I drank 8 oz at T2. Not sure if it made a difference but I am going to experiment with larger quantities.

Keith Wick

Before you go an do this, can you give us some of the metrics that you raced in your last HIM's (power data, pace data, etc)? Does this occur if you do a 3 hr HIM paced bike followed by a 45' brick run at HIM pace? Did this occur during your race rehearsals? Please list out the nutrition strategy you used along with what the race conditions were

jhpiii

Keith - First, super thankful for you taking the time to try and help. I actually posted a race report but don't know how to link to it. It is called Patriots HIM 2012 and it was written around September 12 or so. It has my pacing and nutrition info in painful detail. If you see anything helpful, I would be very grateful!

To answer your other questions, no I get no cramping on a 3 hour ride at any pace, nor do I get cramping in my Race Rehearsal. Part of the problem is that the cramping usually doesn't start until mile 6.5 (i.e. longer than the RR run). Also, I never get cramping in my long training runs (up to 2.5 hours).

I'm telling you, this thing is a mystery...

Paul Hough

@ John- Drink 8 oz the night before, 8 oz before race start, at least 4 oz at T1, and take 8 oz with you on the run. I am also adding in Cliff Shot Margarita flavor for the run. That flavor has the highest sodium content and was recommended to me as part of my QT2 nutrition plan.

jhpiii

Paul- I will definitely try that, thanks. I was amazed at how well the Pickle Juice Sport went down, so I am not scared to add more to the plan. And I also just discovered the Margarita Clif Shots this summer, but I didn't realize they had the high sodium content. Thanks again for your help!

Keith Wick

Hi John,

It's hard to really comment about the cramps over race distance since they occurred immediately at the end of the swim. This leads me to think that it maybe something with your kick technique during the swim. Is your kick a propulsion kick or a "keep my body horizontal kick"? Also, are you over flexing your calves during the swim to help you kick and reduce drag? Do these cramps ever happen in the pool? Do you change your kick in a race situation so that you don't worry as much about people hitting/grabbing your feet?

I'd be curious to see you do a HIM ride and HIM run without the swim to see if the issue occurs. I don't think this is a very good idea from a training/recovery standpoint, but it may give you more information about whether it is swim related. I'm wondering if it doesn't happen in swim training because you change foot positions everytime you flip turn/kick off the wall.

Dino Sarti

I think it was covered already, but I would echo that is too much racing either alone or with others. The problem is that to do it right will cost you two weeks per month. You will need a week to taper and rest to get your best performance, then a week to recover. That leaves two weeks for training and then repeat. If you don't invest the two weeks, it will never be race pace. if you do invest the two weeks, you are cutting your training months in half.....

jhpiii

Keith- That is a really good idea to do the HIM "test race" without swimming. It might isolate if the swimming is creating the cramping problem. The cramping I had in that last race was the first time it had happened like that, but it doesn't mean I wasn't on the edge of cramping in previous swims. I think I will also try to get in more long distance open water swims (easy to do in Virginia Beach) and that might tell me if the swimming is causing cramping. Good suggestions and feedback.

Dino- Thanks for the response. I now see your point, if I don't taper for the prior week, then it won't give me a true measurement to use. So it really does take out a full two weeks.

tim cronk

@John---- +1 on Kieth's idea to try and isolate if your cramping problem is only in the swim!

My experience with similar problem.

I DO NOT CRAMP ON THE BIKE OR RUN!

I DO CRAMP IN THE CALF MUSCLES ONLY WHEN SWIMMING AND ONLY WHEN RACING!

My cramps only happen in the calf only when racing , with or without wetsuit , in HIM and IM distances , usually about halfway thru or further , I usually stop kicking and they slowly go away, they do not effect my bike or run, but when this occurs my calf muscles are absolutely killing me for the week of recovery and feel like big knots. I have not been able to replicate my cramps in training , lots of OWS, kick swim , no kick swim , pool swim , etc..... it just wont happen in training.

Since it only happens in the swim which is the first 30-60 minutes of the day I have completely ruled out nutrition , sodium , etc!

Good luck trying to isolate!

jimmy augustine

John - I would like to keep in touch this OS as I am a cramper as well. 5 marathons and 2HIMs and I cramped in all of them. Each time I change a variable (training, nutrition, execution), reload and try again.
I have never cramped in training. RR's, long runs. Nada.

I can totally relate to your plan to hold practice races in the OS to see if you can replicate. And while I could agree that it might put you in a hole from a recovery standpoint I can also see the potential payoff of identifying and eliminating the cramps and the impact that could have on every race from that day forward.

Oct 28 is another HIM for me. For this one I will be changing a number of variables at once. More cal and sodium thx to the core diet folks, more training vol and a power meter on the bike. Latly, I will be hitting the pickle juice early and often. As paul suggested 1 night before, one before the start, some in t1 and one along with me on the run.

I will post results after. Good luck.

mgraffeo

The root cause is not a lack of fitness. Doing a crap-ton of non-sanctioned racing is unlikely to bring you to the solution, plus you're likely to need so much recovery from them that it will put a dent in a lot of training sessions. In addition, if you really want to do a 'rehearsal', you ought to taper for it, carbo-load the same way you would for a real race, etc, and once again, this will put a further 3-5 days of lower training in the schedule in addition to the 5-9 days of recovery on the other side of the race. IMHO, not the right way to do it.

Cramps are hard to figure out, but are usually going to boil down into one of two sources: electrolytes (seems unlikely based on what you've already tried), or demanding too much of the muscle. The latter could be pacing, or it could be imbalances. Personally, I used to get pretty bad hamstring cramps under certain conditions (though usually not in races). It was related to underdeveloped strength in the hamstrings and glutes, in relationship to my quads. A big part of the solution involved a combination of strengthening the posterior chain (hammies, glutes, erector spinae), as well as stretching the heck out of my very, very tight hip flexors. The folks who helped me out also told me to NOT stretch the hamstrings. I'd stretched them so often that I didn't have the lack of flexibility I thought I did there. It may be worth finding someone in your area who could help with a gait analysis.

jhpiii

Jimmy - Best of luck to you next weekend. Sounds like we are on similar searches for a solution. I will be interested to get your feedback on the increased pickle juice!

Mike - Great feedback. How did you end up strengthening the "posterior chain"? Weights? Or other "plyometric" type of drills? I have considered some kind of strength training this off-season. Also, did you employ any yoga or other type of flexibility work?