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Numbers, numbers, what's up with all the numbers??!!

It occured to me, now that the NovOS has started, people are testing, posting results, update signatures, etc, that some of our new members might be wondering WTF is going on??!! 

So wanted to give everyone a few details, notes, a global perspective, etc.

You're now inside EN during our Ricky Bobby "I just wanna go FAST" time of year -- that is, from now through about early April, most of our team isn't thinking about racing, not thinking about building endurance, not thinking about the HIM they are doing in June or the IM in July, or the Oly in May. Instead, they are focused on just. getting. faster. Becoming a:

  • Faster 5k, 10, half marathon runner
  • 40k time trial cyclist. 

By making you faster at these distances we create the potential for you to be much faster at the longer distances later in the year, when we begin to put endurance under that speed in March or April for some, a little later for others. If our goal is to make you faster, then the most time efficient, direct way to make you faster is to have go faster AND for us to track how fast you're going. That is...I want to get faster. I make you faster by carefully planning portions of your workouts where...you go faster (your intervals). You are performing these intervals in training zones that are function of your demonstrated ability to go at speed X (ie, these tests we started you out with). I'm not too concerned with your heart rate, what adaptations are / are not happening, etc. I'm focused on the end result we are trying to acheive and prescribing stuff in terms of that results -- speed, power, and pace. 

We've been working this way since we began EN, in '07, and PnI were working with our 1:1 athletes like this since well before. As a result EN has a history of testing, posting results, sharing those results, and developing fun accountability and support mechanisms around numbers. A LOT of numbers. FTP, VDot, W/kg, IRS, and MPG. 

A few notes on these numbers:

There is no dick measuring (sorry ladies) in Endurance Nation. Period, full stop. 



Numbers are not posted for bragging rights, to compare one against the other, to create "classes" of athletes, etc. It's just folks testing, posting numbers as way of sharing with people what they are doing. Setting a goal as way of saying "this is the goal I've set for myself. Please support me and encourage me towards the accomplishment of these goals. You do the same and I'll do the same for you. That's it. Bottomline: you will NEVER find a more supportive, knowledgable and grown up, frankly, group of adults in the tri space. 

Your numbers are your numbers

This mostly applies to the power folks, especially new folks and the "Lil' Peeps" as we like to call them . You're going to see a dude post about his 350w FTP and you're going to compare that to your 165w FTP. You're going to see guys posting about 250w FTPs, holding 260w for a HIM, averaging 220w for an Ironman and other numbers that seem to be another planet from where you're at. But you need to frame their numbers within a certain parameters:

  • The person's size, this is the big one. I'll use Ben Vanmarke, new member in Ohio but he recently moved from my area to SoCal. I've done a lot of riding with "Belgium Ben." Ben is a big doode, north of 220lb, probably. When he's fit, Ben's FTP is probably north of 350w. When Ben is fit and light, for him, it SUCKS riding behind him on his tri bike on the flats because he's a friggin' freight train. But when the road goes up, especially steep or long and sleep, Ben's w/kg begin to come into play. 
  • Their experience / history in the sport: my ~305w FTP and Patrick's ~330w FTP, when in IM shape, are the result of years of punching the clock on the bike. 
  • Age, sex, etc
  • The same with VDot, a running metric.

All of these are just add a bunch of caveats to everyone's numbers and, over time, as your begin to define your world and fitness with numbers, and begin to train with other people, body types, levels of experience, etc, you'll just a get feel for what the numbers mean and how they relate, or don't, to you. 

The same is true with VDot, the metric we use for running. You may see that someone has a 58 VDot (friggin' fast). What you don't know is that the cat weighs a $1.25 and was a cross country runner in college. Or the gal is a 38 VDot but has lost 80lb in the last 2yrs as she's worked to make significant lifestyle changes. 

But most importanly, nobody cares, nobody is judging you. You will NEVER hear someone say anything "bad" or unsupportive about someone's numbers. You may see some good natured smack and trash talk between folks who know each other but that's all it is. Again, this is a paid community where everyone has had a trial and very open/liberal cancellation through which to vet themselves being a good fit for this community. The result is everyone here is good peoples. 

Comments

  • Very Nicely written...the spirit of EN
  •  Great capture of the EN culture. Polar opposit of the forum on ST!

  •  and it why some of us stay around the haus

  • ... learning to be a better athlete is what got me to join.... but it is the community support that has kept me here. Thanks for posting Rich.
  • As a slower peep, I can say the only negative comments I have gotten on my vdot or FTP come from ME. Everyone else is very supportive when I add a couple points to my pitiful numbers (which are much higher now having trained with EN). No one posts numbers to brag like Rich said. It is just a way of comparing their own wkos for themselves and to review improvements.
  • You do have a way with words Coach :-)
  • (from my storm bunker) Thanks Rich!!!
  • "There is no dick measuring (sorry ladies) in Endurance Nation. Period, full stop."

    This is probably the #1 reason people live through OS #1 and stay for a long time in da haus!!!
  • Here Here coach, clap! clap! clap! Here for the family team supportive vibe mojo and no cross contamination of ST!

  •  Very well said! 

    To reference what Rich is talking about: http://members.endurancenation.us/T...fault.aspx

    The ST thread contained therein is a good example of how *not* to behave. Still think it's worth perusing because of the good points Coach Rich makes about FTP testing, and Jim Moss makes a comment in the ST thread about "dick waving" (sorry ladies) which had me laughing my ass off for a good 5 minutes. 

  •  As a newly minted 'Lil Peep', I greatly appreciate the tone in this and every other thread I read. Creates a very relaxing atmosphere for those of us with less than astronomical numbers  image

  • Great post Coach Rich,

    I think the best part is the fact is learning from the team and utilizting the knowledge of those fast people in the haus in a civilized way.

    Gordon

  • Well said, Coach Rich
    Because I am new, the NovOS just started and a lot of numbers are getting posted, I see all these numbers as nothing more than an opportunity to stay in my box. It's how I train, how I race and how I analyze my performances. One cannot execute what one doesn't rehearse, right?
    At the end of the day, nobody is losing sleep over my numbers and I am not losing any over theirs...and I think I would have bigger issues than trying to improve my own if I did.

    I look forward to learning so much from the experience, knowledge and friendly atmosphere that I have so far enjoyed with this group.
    Let's keep building each other up!
  • But let's not forget that the rest of us non-Americans have to take our watts, deduct 32, then multiply by 5, then divide by 9 to get a comparable figure.
  •  @ Dave LOL

    you seem more relaxed at this stage re: Arizona than you were at this stage before Kona ... ...

  • Rich, I can't remember where the post was (maybe "staying the course" or something) about ENers making hash marks on the bars of their pain caves with a rusty nail until we're released as crazy-fast beasts in Feb/Mar...remember that one? That highlighted to me the fact that we're not competing against each other here in the Haus...we're competing against our former non-EN, long&slow, volume-hungry, unfocused selves. It's all about SELF-improvement and being the best YOU that you can be. I'm addicted to the supportive personalities here in EN and have made some long-standing friendships from it.

    Probably worth finding that post you wrote and giving it a bump. It was so motivating, I think I actually sprinted to my car after work that day.....
  • Posting watts is overrated in the OS in my opinion because it is so subjective. To Rich's points above. Better to get the FTP number tight and then focus on IF. IF is a great one because when the FTP is set right, IF numbers reflect the intensity of the work! And, after all, we all know that work works and the OS is all about intensity.
  • Posted By Rich Strauss on 30 Oct 2012 12:20 PM

     

    • The person's size, this is the big one. I'll use Ben Vanmarke, new member in Ohio but he recently moved from my area to SoCal. I've done a lot of riding with "Belgium Ben." Ben is a big doode, north of 220lb, probably. When he's fit, Ben's FTP is probably north of 350w. When Ben is fit and light, for him, it SUCKS riding behind him on his tri bike on the flats because he's a friggin' freight train. But when the road goes up, especially steep or long and sleep, Ben's w/kg begin to come into play. 
    • Their experience / history in the sport: my ~305w FTP and Patrick's ~330w FTP, when in IM shape, are the result of years of punching the clock on the bike. 
    • Age, sex, etc
    • The same with VDot, a running metric.

     

    I just read this - WTF Rich, north of 220 lbs? Do I look that fat?  That was true during my older days (when my FTP was also nowhere near 350 or 360 watts  It's winter and I'm out of shape, so 205lb now. Did Vineman Full around 185 and IMSG this year at 190. Shooting for IM 70.3 SG at 185 and IM Wisconsin at 180. 

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