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30:30 Execution, Data, results & Trainer Road

Joseph LombardiJoseph Lombardi
in General Training Discussions

 So today I substituted the TrainerRoad CLOUDSREST workout of 3x(12x30:30) for our planned 6x(5x30:30) workout...and thought I had a great workout...I hit and held the on-screen power @ or above the target 250 (mostly 258-265) for each 30's segment...but when I downloaded the workout the power data for each of the 30's segments was below 250...(mostly 238-245)!....

So...the question is...did I do the workout properly? My guess is that in each 30's segment it takes 10sec or so to get up to the power before your holding steady and thus the avg. for the 30's is lower.....Do the question(s) are:

 

1.) Did I do the workout properly?

2.) should I have HIT IT even harder at the start of each 30s segment to get up to target faster? ..or started a few seconds early?

3.) or should you shoot for a higher "steady state" to compensate for the ramp up and hit a higher avg. for the segment...

NOTES: This is PowerMeter (not virtual power)...The Power during each 30's segment did not "tail off"...ie. I did not explode to a peak, hold briefly and then struggle to hold/power declined...I got up to a number/range and held it there once there...(at least that is what the display showed..+/-5 but above 250...)...

 Heres the workout...took me a couple of the first segments to find the right gear/cadence...

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/100690

 

Comments

  • steveperxsteveperx
    1. Yes, you did this properly
    2. I don't think you want to spike the power early, but do try to minimize the ramp up time. You're doing this correctly
    3. Don't overshoot your power goal to compensate. Think of the initial weeks of 30/30s as an "adaptation phase" You will gradually extend the ON/OFF time from 30s to 1:00 to upwards of 5:00 when doing VO2max work. As the interval gets longer the ramp up time will have less impact on the Avg Power of the interval.
  • rmillerrmiller
    I agree with Steve - you did it properly and try to minimize ramp up with the shorter intervals but also don't spike.

    I've found I see the same thing as you - with short intervals, the data that gets plotted often falls a tad short of the goal that you hit. I figure it's just a consequence of sampling delay/averaging that'll get ameliorated as the intervals get longer.

  • Joseph LombardiJoseph Lombardi

    Thanks for the feedback!.....

  • Al TruscottAl Truscott

    I found early on (2010) that the NP for a set of 30/30s - say, 6 intervals of 120%/65% IF - is right about @ 100% of FTP. So I tend to just start an interval on my Joule at the start of a set like that, and look at the total IF. As long as I am in the range of 0.99-1.0, I figure I've done it right. That way,. I don't have to get involved in the minutiae of trying to figure ot what's going on within the (very short) 30 second work interval.

    And if in the middle of the 30/30 set, I'm too low or too high on the total IF, I just raise or lower the % on TR.

    NB: I do NOT include the "extra" 2 minute recovery phase between sets, just the part which has the actual 30 second work and recovery intervals.

  • Joseph LombardiJoseph Lombardi

     I like that approach Al...it really takes into account how you handle the "off" time...Thanks.

     

  • benvanmarckebenvanmarcke
    Question about doing VO2 max intervals. I did my FTP test yesterday and whereas the VO2 max power should be around 20% above FTP I found mine to be 42% above FTP. SO when we are doing VO2 max intervals, do I pick 120% FTP, or 142% FTP as my target? It makes a 60 watt difference so it seems quite important.

    (Note - I don't think the VO2 max is especially high, it's more the FTP that's very low from just getting too far out of shape).

    Thanks!
  • Al TruscottAl Truscott
    Posted By Ben Vanmarcke on 11 Nov 2012 05:59 AM

    Question about doing VO2 max intervals. I did my FTP test yesterday and whereas the VO2 max power should be around 20% above FTP I found mine to be 42% above FTP. SO when we are doing VO2 max intervals, do I pick 120% FTP, or 142% FTP as my target? It makes a 60 watt difference so it seems quite important.



    (Note - I don't think the VO2 max is especially high, it's more the FTP that's very low from just getting too far out of shape).



    @ Ben ... I assume you have not yet done any VO2 (30/30) workouts yet. I suggest using the 120% of FTP number for your first workout. If the next morning you are not tired or sore, and think you should increase the workload for those VO2 sessions, then in order to get "more work" without necessarily risking over- training, consider these options, keeping the level @ 120% of your FTP:

    • Unless you are already doing the Adv plan, increase the number of repeats to the adv plan level.
    • Increase the amount of time for each interval, keeping the total work time the same. E.g., if the intervals add up to 15 minutes @ 120%, do 15 x 1 minute on, 1 minute recovery, up to a max of 5 minutes on/5 minutes off.
    • Eliminate  one or more of the longer recovery periods in the main set.

    Try these first and wait two more weeks until your next FTP test before altering the work level for the VO2 sets. Deep fatigue takes a while to build up.

    Your test results may indicate that your body needs more work in the FTP zone compared to the VO2 zone. You have plenty of room to raise that FTP, but working hard on the VO2 will not materially help raise your FTP. Wait until your FTP "ceiling" catches up towards your VO2 "roof" to start worrying about raising that roof. Up until this year, we actually did all FTP work for the first 8 weeks of the OS.

  • steveperxsteveperx
    What Al said. If your VO2max is truly that much above your FTP, then you'll know after a couple of weeks, and you should perhaps focus on FTP intervals rather than VO2max intervals to raise that ceiling.
  • benvanmarckebenvanmarcke
    Posted By Steve Perkins on 11 Nov 2012 10:29 AM

    What Al said. If your VO2max is truly that much above your FTP, then you'll know after a couple of weeks, and you should perhaps focus on FTP intervals rather than VO2max intervals to raise that ceiling.



    Thanks Al, that makes really good sense to me! As I'm thinking about it it is probably a good thing to focus a bit extra on FTP and less on VO2 Max for the next week or two. I am absolutely convinced FTP is what needs more attention for me than VO2 max given my current (lack of) fitness / endurance. 

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