Nov OS - replace Saturday VO2max work with FTP?

charris

Per this post:

http://endurancenation.us.dnnmax.co...fault.aspx

 

I think my Power at VO2max is high relative to my FTP.  Another data point is that I found the just finished 6 weeks of 30/30 stuff "easy" relative to the previous FTP work.

 

I'm just wondering if, for the last 6 weeks of this OS, I might be better off replacing the Saturday 30/30 workouts listed with FTP stuff (2x15, 3x10, etc.) instead?  Or if the change in stimulus is more important (mentally and physically?) from a big picture perspective.

 

Just thinking out loud here.  Don't get me wrong - I'm happy to stick with the plan as I'm obviously seeing results - just looking to optimize if it makes sense - and improve my understanding of underlying principles.

Chris G

Do 2x20 and then do the 30/30's.  If they are "easy" it really should not be much of a problem.  FWIW if the 30/30's are "easy" why not go harder or switch them up to 60/30's or 2/2's or something.  Regardless if you have a lot left in the tank do the .85 intervals at FTP instead.  If you do the 30/30's and then 2x15 at FTP and still do not think you worked hard enough, you need to retest. 

as a practical matter if you do the workouts as written and they feel easy you either did them wrong or are not using the right FTP

dhalligan

Craig,

Are you keeping the off set of the 30/30's at 60%? 

If so, have you tried them straight through with no rest?

Like Chris suggested, try the longer sets.  I built up to 2/2's with no rest and felt that was plenty tough.  I found the 30/30's easier as well, so I adjusted to longer sets.

Some monsters around here do 2.5/2.5's.

For me, I'm happy to see a mixture of FTP and VO2 max stuff for the next few weeks.  Seems like a nice balanced mix. 

For me, it's mostly mental.  Longer sets of anything regardless of intensity are harder.  Good luck.

Dave

Kitboo

Good question, Craig. My V02max power is also high relative to my FTP too (I attribute it a whole summer of riding mtb). I really feel the need to be doing more work at FTP. Anyhoo, 2 x 20 at FTP then 30/30's sounds like a good idea. Well, maybe 2 x 15---let's see how the 3 x 10's go tomorrow...

charris

@Chris - thanks for the good thoughts as usual.

 

For the 6 week period, I did them as written and didn't try making them longer or doing them with no rest, although I did bump up the wattage target a bit for the work/rest intervals.

 

I didn't want to experiment too much because I am still erring on the side of caution with the OS, mainly because I am still expecting a guy with nunchuks to jump out and beat the crap out of my legs at some point.  I was one of the noobs at the start that said "hey, should I add a bit of work?" and heard a resounding "NO! Let us know if you still feel like adding work in a few months".  Well, I'm a few months in and still feel like adding work, but am still resisting the urge.  One x-factor is some broken ribs that made me back down the runs to Easy pace for a month or so, so I realize I am "fresher" than I would otherwise be - also I am stuck indoors on the training, so am not doing the long Saturday rides that outdoor guys are doing.

 

From a practical perspective, I think I'm doing the workouts correctly.  As for the FTP being wrong, I think it's pretty darn close based on testing and a few data points.  I guess that's partially the question behind the question - if your pVO2max/FTP ratio is high, does that mean you should use a higher FTP for the VO2max stuff?  It's somewhat equivalent to, say, having a VDOT of 55 for a 1 mile race and a VDOT of 50 for a 1/2M.  If you were doing speedwork, would you use the 50 VDOT?

 

Per your and David's suggestion, I will experiment with making the VO2max stuff longer.  When I was doing Billat intervals for running last summer, moving from 20 x 30"/30" to 5 @ 2'/2' definitely made it tougher mentally and physically.

 

I'll try that and see how it goes and then think about getting cute and adding even more.

 

@David

Good question - yes, I am doing the rest at 60%.

 

I agree on the mental aspect - in addition to 2'/2's being harder, I like that it will also be more "specific" to what I think is one of my limiters - which is sucking it up for prolongeds period of time.  Or increasing my HTFUmax.  Digging deep for short intervals I can handle (again, I think it's the mountain bike mentality) - digging in longer periods of time I find particularly hard.

 

The longer workbouts wil still give me the mix of FTP/VO2max, and hopefully it will feel (and be) more productive.

 

@Kitima

You're brave - let me know how the VO2+FTP combined workouts go - I'll use you as my guinea pig!

 

Anyway, rambling as I always do - thanks for all the good thoughts folks.