overcooking the run intervals
Wanted to get peoples opinions on the best way to approach the run intervals during the OS. Originally posted in the Nov OS forums but hard to keep track of peoples responses.
Just finished the first week of the OS and yesterday was my first OS interval run session. Plan called for 2x1 mile repeats at TP. Problem that I'm having is that I am routinely running faster than prescribed interval (had same problem last year). When I run my intervals I run focusing on forum and flow and just let my body dictate pace. I walk the recovery interval because jogging slow just doesn't make sense to me. I have my garmin running but only look at intermittently. Mainly use it for cadence alarms. Question is do I just keep running as is and let things fall where they may or do I purposely try to slow down to prescribed interval.
Didn't appear to have any negative responses to overcooking the intervals last year. I suffered no major injuries. Did my legs fatigue yes and were there times that I had to really push the intervals, yes. Again pushing the intervals resulted in overachieving the interbals. These are all, to me, normal responses to someone entering the triathlon world after a 20 year lay off. Overall VDOT jumped 10 points from October to October and every test was faster then the previous test.
Problems is I know things can have a cumulative effect and what didn't hurt me last year may hurt me this year
Thoughts
Comments
Hi John,
I am neither a coach nor a WSM - that said, I do adhere to the guiding principles that every workout must be done with the subsequent workout in mind (e.g. a workout is a step in a long stairway), and that every step up in training pace must be earned through testing. I do so for a few reasons. From what I have seen of your posts, and it seems I read them a lot, you already know everything I'm about to say, so I only put it here in case my thinking supports yours.
There is a risk of injury, and a previously unrealized risk is still a risk. Last time I ran a stop sign I didn't get hit by a car, but that doesn't mean I can run the next stop sign with impunity... and I'm getting older, so balancing training effect and recovery is more important than it was in previous years because my physical aspect is a little less forgiving.
There is the subsequent workout. If I drive my run too hard, then I don't have as much to give to the bike. Again, the older I get, the more I need to think about the rest of the week during my workout.
There is the also the aspect of delivering the training to the right system. If I'm trying to build threshold and I'm operating at VO2M then I might be leaving threshold where it is.
Then there is the aspect of learning to pace. If I am able to run my established paces in training, then there is a good probability that I will be able to hit my paces in a race, and that's almost more important to me. If the objective of training is to deliver a dose sufficient to elicit a strong training response during recovery, then the object of racing is almost the opposite - it's to get as much forward motion as possible for a whatever power output I can sustain - a level that can be estimated in terms of watts and pace based on prior testing and training.
The problem is that real life offers up some shades of gray. The truth is that on any given day for any number of reasons I can handle more or less training than the prescribed dosage. Some days I feel great, even despite a hard workout the day before. Some days I have a hard time getting off the starting block. Continuing with truth - seems like the thing to do - it's like "truth or dare" here - on the days I feel totally great, I do overachieve - a little (gray area but I'm thinking on the order of 5% on power, pace or volume, not both). On the days that I don't feel great, I try to meet the baseline. If anything sends warning signals, I call it a day regardless of where I am in my workout - my own ROI calculator considers the cost of risk of injury to be way greater than the cost of a truncated workout. (Note that I may race through a warning signal but I will not train through a warning).
Bottom line - I don't try to run looking at my watch, nor do I typically ride looking at the computer. (Note: indoor exercise is an exception to this). I personally try to stick to my paces. If I find that I'm a little over or under going by feel, then I consider whether that's because I'm having an unusually good or bad day. If I am systematically overachieving, day after day, then I reign in my pace until my next test.
That's all I've got. Hope it helps your thinking.
Not to sound like a D*ck...but Intervals are controlled running sessions....and they are about Pace & Recovery...your developing you Aerobic/Anearobic systems not your running form.
You are in control of the car....just because you CAN run faster doesn't mean you SHOULD run faster...I run my Z4 intervals at 6:50....I can run 6:05's if I want to...with good form and all....but that is not the purpose of the workout.........
So it doesn't make sense to OVERCOOK your intervals...and you should focus as much on maintaining proper pace as you seem to be on form...
Oh I wasn't yelling with the caps : ) just emphasiszing....
If your Zones/paces are too easy...then when you retest it should show up...then adjust.
The simplest answer? You're paying $$$ to the coaches for their thoughtful experience here. It's not like this is the first time down the block for them; they monitor our progress and make adjustments every year to the training plans (unlike some other coaching services). It's kinda like the quote I read from Cervelo founder: "We spend a lot of time and money working to make our frames more and more aserodynamic. Why do people then plaster gel packs and all sorts of other things onto them?"
My advice (which I have a hard time following myself, but I'm doing better this OS): train to what you test. If you think you can go faster in the workouts, prove it first in a 5K. If it feels too easy, well, maybe that's just the endorphins talking.
My thoughts can be summed up thusly:
1) Do what works for you, especially if it has proven effective in the past. However, your definition of 'effective' can vary greatly - from 'Did I get injured?' to 'Did I reap as much gain as I could have?' - as you alluded to in your followup post.
2) If you know your body's warning signs that you are pushing things too much, pay particular attention to them. If you don't, then you are better off backing off the intensity just a tad, which leads me to #3...
3) You can still get huge gains even with slightly reduced intensity:
3a) Coggan power zones (for bike, but I'd say it's still applicable to running) indicates that threshold is well below your very-top-end performance: http://tinyurl.com/7vwyazl)
3b) The sweet-spot range of intensity is rather wide, but things can go south in a hurry if you go too far (the graph about 2/3 of the way down, showing the parabolic effect of training effect: http://tinyurl.com/6a897n)
Personally, I'd follow the prescribed paces based on a valid VDOT number. I'd rather be assured that I'm not overdoing it and maybe give up a few % of my maximum potential in return for staying injury free or overtraining - both of which are more detrimental. Especially in week 1 of the OS where a screw-up here can have a season long ripple effect. There is plenty of time to up the intensity later on if it is deemed appropriate.
We mostly tend to use the approach that more is somehow better!
In my case I have done 2 OSes in the Haus and have blown myself up both times with overtraining.
I had to have 4 weeks off and am now just starting week 7 of intermediate 20 week HIM build.
I am doing the bike sessions at an IF of 0.97 (for Z4 intervals) etc. For the run, I am just trying to be around and lower at that for the paces.
Before now, I always tried to hit or exceed each interval/session.
Not surprisingly I feel much better and am improving whereas before I seemed to be stuck at a level of performance.
As Al says, ask the coaches.
For me, this season I intend to explore doing less intensity. For example, the brick run after the mid week bike intervals calls for HMP/MP but as I have always struggled with this session's intensity, I now do EP/MP.
YMMV,
Generally, I try to stay away from overachieving. Like Peter said, we want to do the minimum amount of work that makes us faster. Any harder than that, then the risks of injury and burnout start to outweigh the gains. Personally, I take comfort in the fact that there's a "sweet spot" in intensity and I don't have to be working balls-out hard to see results.
I think occasionally, we can get away with overachieving depending on a host of other factors, like current levels of fitness, durability and capacity to absorb all the hard work, etc. I don't think it's sustainable in the long term though, especially since running is the hardest discipline on our bodies.
John,
Not much to add other than I agree with not overachieving on the run. Part of the issues is your long lay off and the 10 point vdot jump. You were gettting gains and perhaps you needed to test more often. I suspect this year gains will be harder and once you hit year 3 even more difficult.
My first OS in 20 weeks I went from a 30 to a 38 just following the plan. Could I have got more probably?
So if your test is valid then stick to the plan. Alternatively test the run maybe every 4 weeks or when you feel the need, say week 4, week 10 and after 14 weeks. If you have trouble executing or pushing yourself on a vdot test then look for some 5k races to incorporate in to the OS.
One final thought. If you have moved up from beginner to intermediate or intermediate to advanced you will build up faster and have more work this year. I did not look at the other plans this year but I believe beginner was doing 3X800s while the advanced starts at 2X1 mile.
Gordon
Yes, this is exactly what I noticed for me too. I can get a good sense of how much fatigue I've built up by seeing how my pace correlates with my RPE during the warmup of my run. When I'm fresh and well rested, I'll be around HMP or MP while running "easy" and I won't even know it. On the other hand, if I see that I'm working just to stay at EP...not good