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Saturday workouts

EflachEflach
in General Training Discussions

Just curious...this sat is 90' bike and 25' brick run or 50' run later in day.  The mental aspect is important in the outseason.  I really struggle with this run.  Thoughts on moving this run to monday for 50'.  I know that is only 1 day off a week and not ideal.  Just know for me it would be a mental win-win.

Comments

  • spabblingtonspabblington
    While I can't really comment on the question (lots of other, smarter folks can take that up) - I did want to give props to the NC profile pic! Although I have become a converted Auburn fan since moving to Alabama, my heart will always be a Tarheel!!
  • CarlCarl

    Eric-

    If your not bricking then it suggest a run later. Just curious if you have tried both-the brick run and the 50 min run later. If so which do you like better-running right off the bike or taking a few hours off and running later??



    I think your day off is paramount in the off season. The OS use to be 20 weeks vs 14 and trust me it will jump on your back if your not taking the appropriate time off.



    I personally like to knock the bike out then honest breakfast and do whatever is needed to be done for the day then banging out the longer run later after several hours off.  Will help build you up mentally so come race day you are strong mentally like a baby bull!!



    Just my 2 cents

  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    What about doing it as a reverse brick? The run first (as long as not too hard) shouldn't affect your bike much and might be easier mentally.
  • ezellrhezellrh
    Eric, for me, the Saturday run is the hardest of the week. Most weeks I will either a) get the run in later in the day (afternoon) after a good rest or b) skip it. Last OS I mostly skipped it. This OS I'm trying to get it done. I've thought about early am run (prior to kids waking up) and then biking in the afternoon nap slot, but that just makes me run in the dark and bike in the basement (when I really like running outside in the light).

    Either way, I would not recommend moving it to one of the precious recovery days. I know I'm rocking this one like its my job! Good luck.
  • rmillerrmiller
    I do what William mentioned - reverse brick it. Minus the brick. I do the run first and get it out of the way, because I want my legs to be as fresh as possible for running form and not fatigued coming off the bike. Then, later on in the day, after several hours, I'll do the bike workout. I've never found the bike workouts to have much of a downstream effect - so I find it helpful to get the blood flowing again to help the legs recover from the run.
    And then on Sunday, it's another run. The legs are a tad fatigued from the previous day, but they'd have ~24 hours run rest, so it's usually not a huge problem.

  • Coach RichCoach Rich

     Reverse brick (bike first), or second run later in the day.

    And, remember, we have no volume goals for you on these workouts. That is, you're fine doing the mainset, etc and having the whole workout last from 60-90'. Up to you. Getting / not getting in that 30' doesn't really make a big difference this time of year. 

  • Al TruscottAl Truscott

    I usually do the Sat run on either the preceeding Friday or following Monday, or as a brick. Tomorrow will be a brick, which I like, even though it tires me out, its a good tired. Bear in mind I don't do off days - I'm always doing something, be it weight lifting, swimming, or that Sat run, but I've been training consistently for a couple of decades now.

  • Michael ByertsMichael Byerts
    In the outseason, I tend to prioritize my workouts:
    (1) Wednesday and Sunday Quality Run Main Sets
    (2) Tuesday and Saturday Quality Bike Main Sets
    (3) Thursday Bike Main Set
    (4) Swim Hack workouts somewhere in the week when they fit
    (5) Brick Runs
    (6) "Extra" time to meet some pre-determined volume goal

    In practice, I always get (1) and (2) done (even if I have to juggle the days), mostly get (3) done, sometimes get (4) done, and very seldom get (5) or (6) done. I probably leave some gains on the table by missing workouts, but need to operate in the constraints of my life.
  • jhpiiijhpiii
    Good discussion. I was getting ready to post a similar question but everyone's input is helpful. The only realistic option for me is bike then run brick. LIFE does not allow two separate workouts in one day. But I ALWAYS do the brick run on Saturdays, it just feels complete.
  • EflachEflach

     Thank you for all of the feedback!  One last question.  If it says Main set: 50' (25' if brick).  Do we add on 15' at the front end for WU so total is 65' or 40'?

  • Al TruscottAl Truscott
    Posted By Eric Flach on 30 Nov 2012 09:50 PM

     Thank you for all of the feedback!  One last question.  If it says Main set: 50' (25' if brick).  Do we add on 15' at the front end for WU so total is 65' or 40'?



    No. Times generally are meant to be inclusive of warmup and cool down.

  • Dino SartiDino Sarti
    What Al said above. That run for me is 25' with no warm up since I just rode. I am warm. If I do 50 minutes later, I think it calls for a fairly easy pace, there really is no warm up. Just dial in your pace and count the minutes.

    Regarding the original question, I would urge you to just bite the bullet and do 25 minutes off the bike. You are already sweaty, you will need a shower, just put in a couple trips around the block or 25 minutes on the tread mill. Think of Saturday as a chance to get really relaxed running coming off the bike.... I mentally can't handle the admin time (changing clothes, showering, ect.) of completely separate workout.
  • cgres123cgres123
    Good post with some Great advice.
    As I like the OS and it's lower volume I'm on a mission to run a bit more for a nice Vdot bump, remains to be seen. However it seems to me that Sunday is out for you to do your run ?

    My Sunday is my off day. As I bike Monday, Wed and Friday then dedicate a run Tuesday, Thur and Saturday.
    All good suggestions though !
  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    Sorry to pile onto this so late (I've been off the grid recently), but I have struggled with fitting in the Saturday run schedule-wise. Personally I like to do it as a brick. It is more efficient and, despite EN wisdom to the contrary, I do believe that bricks are effective workouts in making you fast. That said, if I don't get an early enough start then the family is up and at 'em with the weekend activities and I don't have time to do the run. In that case I usually do it before dinner, which I think has the added benefit of helping me metabolize my dinner in a more advantageous way. When I do the run later on, I typically don't double the time because (a) I'm usually constrained for time to begin with and (b) I don't want to undermine my Sunday OS run with a pretty long run on Saturday evening.
  • Paul HoughPaul Hough
    For me, I will run faster if I brick than if I run first or hours later. Something about the bike ride just loosens up my old muscles.
  • benvanmarckebenvanmarcke
    Posted By Dino Sarti on 30 Nov 2012 11:26 PM

    What Al said above. That run for me is 25' with no warm up since I just rode. I am warm. If I do 50 minutes later, I think it calls for a fairly easy pace, there really is no warm up. Just dial in your pace and count the minutes.



    Regarding the original question, I would urge you to just bite the bullet and do 25 minutes off the bike. You are already sweaty, you will need a shower, just put in a couple trips around the block or 25 minutes on the tread mill. Think of Saturday as a chance to get really relaxed running coming off the bike.... I mentally can't handle the admin time (changing clothes, showering, ect.) of completely separate workout.

    Same here, I do these as bricks. Otherwise planning the run later in the day becomes difficult and most likely will cost a big number of SAUs which we are supposed to be saving right now. 

  • Joseph LombardiJoseph Lombardi

     I have never done and will not do reverse bricks...and I definitely prefer 20-30 min. as a brick v. a run later in the day.

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Thanks everyone for sharing. FWIW, I think I have bricked (even bike & run same day) once in 4 years of OS workouts...do what you can and make that count!!
  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    Posted By Paul Hough on 08 Dec 2012 11:41 AM

    For me, I will run faster if I brick than if I run first or hours later. Something about the bike ride just loosens up my old muscles.

    Exactly the same for me. I'll regularly do those bricks at a z4 average pace and feel like I'm working less hard than on a run workout with z4 intervals of 7' separated by 4' recovery!! Actually all of my 10k PBs are in olympic-distance triathlons, so I'm probably at the extreme end of the "biking first makes you run faster" scale...

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