Pedal Cadnece. Training vs Racing?

Jonas McCluskey

I’ve been using my PowerTap powermeter and CycleOps trainer for about 3 weeks now.   In getting acquainted w/ the power data I’ve focused on where my watts seem to be falling in given Z4 or Z5 intervals at my target heart rates.  However this week, for one reason or another during a workout (maybe I just felt weak that day) my cadence seemed low, or I was having to work harder to maintain 200-210watts, so I downshifted, my watts went up about 5% and although it was a different type of “feeling” (nice word for pain) it felt better to me than “mashing”.  I’m in the process of concluding I’m more of a high cadence rider vs. a low cadence rider (my guess would be that my legs are probably the size of most of your guy’s arms as I weight 142 and I’m 6’ tall).

Am I accurate in assuming at this point in a race I’m better off riding at that higher cadence 97 +/- 2 vs. 88 +/-2? 

And what is better for training?  Am I building more speed by sticking w/ that lower cadence and forcing my muscles to build the fast twitch fibers?

Thanks in advance for any input,

Jonas McCluskey

Carl

Jonas/
When I'm on the trainer I am the same way!! I can push much higher watts at a lower cadence but really truly feel comfortable around 82 RPM's.
when I'm outside training or racing my Rpms are around 90-97 and I again really comfortable.

cgres123

@ Jonas,

Am I accurate in assuming at this point in a race I’m better off riding at that higher cadence 97 +/- 2 vs. 88 +/-2?

You know we are not created equal regarding muscle fiber types. It sounds like to me you have a bundle of faster twitch muscle fibers and can push out 88 - 97 on a steady diet and feel better doing it. That is a good thing to have in your bag of trix as a faster cadence will aid in your running.

And what is better for training? Am I building more speed by sticking w/ that lower cadence and forcing my muscles to build the fast twitch fibers?

Well you are ahead of the game as your cadence is one less thing you have to work on. As what's is better for training I suggest you spend some percentage of time mashing to develop/recruit other muscle fibers for your strength training.

rbogle

Conventional wisdom says 90ish cadence on the bike is a good match for run cadence off the bike. I suspect that 90ish is really about the typical natural 'frequency' for muscles firing efficiently for long endurance efforts, but who knows. 

 I also will tend to shift up and pick up the cadence to maintain watts late in a Z4, i'll typically do high 90s low 100s on z4 / z5. I feel most comfortable around 90 on any old ride though. My avg cadence at IMAZ was 87 and thats only doing low z2 (70%)

In my OS last winter I made a point of doing the FTP and VO2 work one gear lower than I was comfortable (70-80s cad) in for as long as I could each time. By the end of the season I was able to ride in that gear @ 90ish comfortably. (Kinda like lifting weights) Sooooo, my n=1 experiece is you can build strength and convert muscles by targeting a harder gear and lower cadence by trying to bring those up. Just dont do too much too soon. 

Joe Matchette

Jonas - I, too, find that my self-selected cadence is different on the trainer versus being on the road. One thing I do during my warmup is that I use my 'normal' gear for the first interval, one lower for the second, and one higher for the third. Then, during the FTP intervals, I will break them up as well. My goal is to be able to hold the given watts at whatever cadence I happen to be at.

If your races are going to be on hilly terrain, I think that getting used to holding target watts with a low cadence is a good thing to get accustomed to during the OS. So, during any portions of 80-85% work, I will really drop it down so that I am at 60-70rpm for stretches at a time. You may not be building more speed, but you are developing the ability to hold your watts where you want them, and that is a HUGE part of the EN execution skill set.

Al Truscott

Coaching advice from week 4 of the OS:

"Tip: don't worry about high or low cadence on these sessions. Get the goal watts or heart rate you need at whatever cadence that happens to be at. PLENTY of time to work on ideal cadence later in the season."

Compare that to THIS week's tip on position:

"Tip: position on the bike -- choose the position (or select the bike) that reduces the mental cost of doing the work. If that's road bike in the hoods vs tri bike in the aerobars, that's fine. Just build the fitness with the lowest mental cost venue available, then we'll transfer that to a tri-specific riding position later when you shift to your A-race training plan."

IOW, the EN coaching philosphy seems to be: Don't overthink the OS.  Just get the work done, and worry about this stuff later.

I would just point out that, at least for the IM bike leg, the middle of the bell-shpaed curve for cadence during the race is 82-85.

Bruce Thompson

Jonas - I come from a running background to triathlon, so I "feel" more comfortable riding at a higher cadance, say 90-95 on a flat road.  It just feels more like running to me.  However, we don't race on all flat roads (even in Illinois we have some hills) so I've practiced riding at FTP watts in a much harder gear at cadance of 60.  This really builds strength, and the interesting thing that I've noticed is that my HR will drop about 3-4 bpm at the same watts vs 90 cadance in an easier gesr.   Since IMWI is my "home" IM course with lots of short steep climbs and descents, I will do the longer OS intervals (anything over 8') by switching the gear and cadance every minute.  For example, I'll do 1' at 90 rpm and flat road gear, then 1' at 60 rpms in a much harder gear to simulate climbing, then 1' at 105 rpms in a very easy gear to simulate a descent.  No matter what gear or rpms I'm in, I try to keep the watts constant at my target FTP watts.  I just keep rotating thru this sequence of flat road, climb, descent for the full time of the interval.

A few of benefits to doing this:

1. It is mentally easier to do the OS intervals since I'm constantly changing gears/rps.  Breaks up the monotony of just grinding away.

2. I now have learned to "feel comfortable" at any rpm and gearing combination.  I'm sure that my legs physically have adapted to this, but just important, so has my mind.  I'm now not scared of a long climb.

3. It has trained me to really keep the watts up on the start of a descent when it is easy to let your watts drop as your rpms increase.  Keeping your watts at your target over the crest of a hill and into the first 1/3 of the descent is one of the most important EN race execution teachings, and it is super important to do this on most IM or HIM race courses.

Hope this helps.

Coach Patrick

@Al, you made me feel special by quoting my own guidance. That said, the goal is higher sustainable watts; shifting will lead to a bump....it's the sustained "extra" 5% we are interested in...IOW, shifting to 70 rpms gets me more watts...but only for 4 minutes. So not sustainable...but...variety is part of a good workout, challenging different muscle fiber types, recruiting muscles differently by position, etc. So keep up the variety, but DEFINITELY keep up the EFFORT!

TH3 FRB

I don't target any specific cadence in training ro racing. I just do what feels right for whatever I'm doing at the moment. That typically ends up being mid 90s for training but my race cadence is usually 98-102 for whatever reason. When I'm doing FT intervals, especially longer ones, I tend to shift up/down a little near the end. SOmething about the slight change in cadence and force production helps me gut out the last few min and maintain the power even if I know it isn't sustainable at the higher or lower cadence for very long. I think the variety is good to include.

Joseph Lombardi

 I have always been a higher cadence guy (90-95)...maybe reflecting on the earlier comment...due to coming from a running background...but this OS...with a better feel for true power (my first full year and now OS with a powertap)...I find I can get into the powerzone and hold it more comfortably with gear up and cadence of 82-87....this is a revelation for me...not sure what has changed but it is working....(in practice during the OS workouts...I will try and shift pack and forth between these to gear/cadence points to vary the workout stress but have definitely found I am stronger at the lower cadence range....the experiment is working.