Home General Training Discussions

Supplements

I was asked to post the supplements I take to maximize recovery as an endurance athlete... So here they are!

I recommend a similar (but not exact) protocol for many of my patients striving towards optimal living, but with different dosages depending on their unique circumstances/health condition. Of course people with unique health conditions may or may not need, or may have have contraindications to some of what I've listed.

Diet and supplementation is an art and science that's ever evolving. What we believed worked well 3-5 years ago may or may not be the case today. It's always changing as science explores more.


3g CaHMB

20,000 IU Vit D

B Complex

500mg/200mg - Calcium/Magnesium (Liquid) 

12mg Astaxanthin

3g Arginine AKG

3g Glutamine

400mg CoQ10

2.4 grams FFA, EPA/DHA 

3g of Beta Alanine

1.5 g/kg Protein Daily (most from protein powder)

MSM only in the off season (Glucosamine/Chondrotin Sulfate has very low bioavailablity)

9.4g Greens First (Super Food Greens Powder)

Daily Multivitamin

 

I believe protein is very important for recovery. Unfortunately protein from cooked meats is heavily denatured so it's not the most reliable. Please know that not all supplements are created equal either. Most of what I take is a practitioner grade that only health care professional can prescribe (brands not available at health food stores). For me it Gaurantees what's on the label is in the bottle. Yet there are many great companies and brands available at your local health store which tend to be more affordable than practitioner grade.

 

Most of these supplements above can be googled to learn more about them. Happy to answer any questions as well.

Comments

  • Thanks for posting! I'm actually trying to maximise my vitamin and mineral intake because I don't eat meat and dairy. I usually track my food to ensure that I am getting enough calcium, iron, B12 and protein. What really surprises me is the amount of vit D you take. That's a lot of vitamin D! I think I may have to look into increasing my intake.
  • Just curious, but is the Brand you take "Thorne Research" as that is what I get from my chiropractor...

    Was that a typo on the Vitamin D? I'm 190# and only take 5,000 I.U. of D3.

    No Vitamin C, or Omega 3?

    Do you spread all that stuff out throughout the day or is it all before bed?
  • I would consider adding turmeric and tulsi (holy basil) to that regimen. Good call on the astaxanthin.
  • Wow, that's quite a concoction you have there. Thanks for sharing Sukhi!

    I take it this is what you take every day, right? I don't really use any supplements myself, but I've recently been taking a scoop of protein powder after every workout, because I think I might be a little low on that given my diet. So I get that taking in something like protein after a hard workout is beneficial, but what about rest/recovery days? Is it worth it to have a scoop or two when you're resting?
  • I was and had been taking a lot of supplements for years. Lots of fish oil 6 Grams , glucosamine chondroitin, multi vitamin mineral supplement, flax seed , milk thistle, CoQ10 and a few other things. This year as it is ending I have finished some of the listed supplements and don't intend on taking anymore as the supply runs out. To be honest I don't notice the absence of any that I have stopped taking nor felt the benefit of anything I was taking.
    Perhaps if I was tested as to what it is I lack I would surely add that supplement but I have found that there is a whole bunch of literature out there that will sell you a bill of goods based on this or that as advertising can suck you in big time.
    I'm not a lab guy and don't know what I/we need but just because it's advertised doesn't necessarily mean it is good for me. I'm opened to scientific based data and a test of my own deficient state before I start taking supplements again.
  • @Naomi Vitamin D is actaully not a vitamin, it's a steroid Hormone that influences almost 3000 of our 30,000 genes making it one of the most important supplements we all should be taking. We need to strive for 70ng/ml and for most that's close to 20,000 IU's (that's not a typo). I take it in liquid form and get 1000IU per drop, therefore take 20 drops daily.
    Here's a good read to better understand with resources: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/12/16/my-one-hour-vitamin-d-lecture-to-clear-up-all-your-confusion-on-this-vital-nutrient.aspx

    @John, you've got a great chiropractor, I use Thorne Mediclear Plus and their Whey Protein as well as several others from them. also use Genestra for Vit.D and my Omega 3's (that's the 2.4g of EPA to DHA ratio (perfect omega 3:6 balance in liquid form). I also take Krill oil (forgot to mention this above). SO I get my Omega's from multiple sources as they're slightly different and have different bioavailability. These provide the building blocks for cell membranes and provide the raw materials to create many substances such as hormones.

    Nope, the vitamin D's not a typo... : ) see above article/comments. I've had phenomenal results with Vitamin D for patients with many different issues, it's my go to supplement. I would look at testing your levels or jump up to 10-20,000 IU for a month to see what happens. I'm a bit of a lab rat and have experimented with as much as 60,000 IU's/daily. No added benefit and stayed below the 100ng/ml levels which are safe, similar results at 20,000 so that's where I stay.

    I don't take any extra Vit. C, as I have an 80% plant based diet and feel I get plenty Vitamin C. In an ideal world I'd spread all this out throughout the day. Most of the time that happens, this's more ideal. To down them all at once is less ideal, but better than not getting them in. Some are special, such as beta alanine which I take 30 minutes before training as it increases carnosine content within skeletal muscle. Scientifically been shown to improve performance in high intensity exercise, a pH buffer, improved excitation-contraction coupling within muscles, etc.... I hope this's helpful John.

    @Peter, yes with my plant based diet I get many herbs and spices and being Indian plenty of Tumeric.... : ) Wonderful anti-inflammatory.

    @Anson, yes this's my daily intake. Many would think it's a lot and extreme, but it's similar to being an IM... We get it, but the people around us think we're nuts. I've dedicated the past 21 years of my life to the science and art of health, wellness and peak performance and stay on the cutting edge of what's available not just for performance, but for our optimal health of mind, body & spirit. Knowing all this just makes it a part of my daily routine.
    Yes, definitely take your protein on your recovery days as that's what supplies the nutrients and minerals to maximize recovery.

    @David, yes you must do what feels right to you. Know that everything I've listed is backed by science, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time and energy. I respect what you say about not feeling any different. For me, when I understand the science of human physiology and see what we need at a cellular level to not just survive, but actually thrive, supplements become a natural part of my lifestyle. Please continue to do what feels right for you.

  • Question on the Vit D - you take 20k IU as a supplement, but I'm curious of your take on it when Vit D is synthesized by the body from sun exposure. Granted, in the winter time it is relatively lacking, but during the spring/summer and early fall when we are out on our runs and bike rides, we are often in the sun for 2+ hours at a time. Most things I see say humans need in the single digit (thousands) of IU's daily, which is satisfied by a surprisingly short amount of time in the sun. I understand we, as people who engage in an activity that puts a lot of demands on our bodies, may require more than the average. But I'm curious whether you just go with 20,000 as a blanket to: 1) cover for those times you may not get enough from the sun, 2) it ends up being sufficient on it's own and 3) keeps you within the realm of a safe dosage, even on those days where you do get a lot of sun.

    Also - as your diet is primarily plant based, and thus high in unrefined foods, I'm curious what sort of differences you've noticed in yourself when taking the supplements vs not. I can certainly see where someone, who eats a diet of largely refined foods, is deficient in many micronutrients, but my understanding is that when going to a diet of primarily unrefined foods, you reach a much higher degree of satisfying your nutrient needs. Again, maybe it is because we are involved in a rather taxing activity that changes things.

    Not challenging what you are saying at all - just legitimately curious, because you are one of, if not the only, person I've come across who I would actually believe when it comes to claims about supplements. EN is good like that - so I mine as well ask you these questions image

  • @Ryan, Totally appreciate your curiosity as well as your critical thinking. Here's what I got 4 ya...

    Vit. D... I love the discussion this brings, I recommend high dosages to many people and they almost always fall off their chair every time, until they understand the science that is.
    Vit.D3 is an oil soluble steroid hormone that forms when your skin is exposed to UVB rays. WHen UVB strikes the surface of your skin, your skin converts a cholesterol derivative to Vit D3... all good!
    Here's the caveat... This D3 sitting on your skin doesn't immediately penetrate into your bloodstream so your body can use it. SO until it's absorbed from your skin into the bloodstream, you actually haven't received any benefits of D3 yet, because it hasn't been absorbed yet. SO here's the million dollar question... How long does it take D3 to get absorbed into your body for use? Science used to believe it took 1-2 hours... wrong! The latest research shows it takes up to 48 hours.
    OK Great, right, in a couple days I'm good to go now! Not so great actually ... After this sun exposure layers of dew form on your skin that contains the D3, if you're anything like me, you're going to jump in the shower and get freshened up using soap (personally I use Dr. Bronners all natural stuff). Soap, organic hygiene aids all wash away that D3 before its had a chance to get into your bloodstream. THerefore no or very little D3 enters your body if you shower after sun exposure.

    SO now you have a choice. You can give up showering and cleaning yourself to give the D3 48 hours to get into your bloodstream or you can supplement with it. Personally I like to shower... but that choice is yours, I actually know people who opt for the no soap light cleanse, getting in some D3. But they kinda smell... : ) not kidding! THerefore I take D3 all year round.

    Now, 30 minutes of D3 from the sun, if allowed to enter your bloodstream would equal 20,000IU's. D3 has so many health benefits, it's affordable. Most recommend 5000IU, when in reality most need 4-5 times that much based on measuring ng/ml testing. Hope this answers your D3 question.

    Why I take all these supplements??? FIrst thing I'll say is that my health is the most important thing for me, Even more important than my fitness. THe myth is that fit=healthy. Lance was very fit, yet he also had tumours growing within him. you can be very fit and very unhealthy, eventually it will catch up to you. We cause an immense amount of free radical damage and oxidation in our bodies as endurance athletes. If we want to have extraordinary levels health too we need to combat this with better lifestyle choices. Don't get me started with what's happened to our food. THe short story is the Monsanto's of the world are killing it. Organic choices are better, but economics and yield drive food, not nutrients. I simply fill the holes in with supplements, because fields are turned over far too frequently now, not giving the soil a chance to cultivate the necessary nutrients and micronutrients we need to thrive.

    When I'm off supplements (which I do 1x year, for 3-4 weeks to reset my system) the biggest area I notice a change is in my mood, energy levels and vitality. I'm a very upbeat positive guy (I'm an author & inspirational speaker too) and to have this watered down bothers me. Endurance athletes talk about getting irritable, spouses complain, they get moody. With my regimen I never feel this way, until I go off them (my wife can vouch for this). Even after tough long rides and runs I remain upbeat and still have more energy than most people around me. I know it's because the cells in my body have what they need to perform their jobs. So for me it's about long term health and wellbeing. I also recover faster from training and am able to hit it hard the next day again. THese are all subjective indicators of my over health and wellbeing

    Hope this helps!
  • @Sukhi - thanks so much for this thread. I'm finding it immensely interesting because I also take my health very seriously (I had a brain tumour partially resected a couple of years ago) since then I've been obsessed with reading and learning about every aspect for improved health that I can get my hands on. I also believe, as you alluded to above, that just because a person is fit, doesn't mean they are healthy.

    So far, I've found that eating a plant-based diet as well as limiting the amount of gluten has really paid off for me. Tons of energy, quick recovery from hard workouts and solid sleeping. I will most definitely increase my levels of Vit D, at your suggestion (I take it but not regularly and not at the levels you mentioned) - my doctor has also suggested D but not at these quantities.

    If there is anything else that comes to mind that you'd like to share with the team, please do! image
  • Vitamin D is one of those tricky things to talk about. Many people are really shocked at how much I take and it's only 8,000 IU per day in supplement form. People say "Oh, it's one of those fat soluble vitamins and you can overdose on those!" (they're thinking more along the lines of Vit A and Vit K, and maybe Vit E but those are different discussions) Well, my primary care physician knows what I take and regarding vitamin D levels, he told me I'm the only one of his patients that he can remember having a Vit D level of 50 ng/ml or more.

    Sukhi makes an excellent point about the lag between sun exposure forming Vit D on the skin and absorption into the bloodstream. No further comment needed from me.

    It's worth a whole other server's worth of disk space to discuss how to help our body's recovery process but Sukhi also has it succinctly put down to the stress we put ourselves through and the nutritional deficits we face with our food supply. Hmm, we have these sponsorship deals with mechanical devices for recovery. What about sponsorship from a trusted nutritional supplement company?
  • @Sukhi - Great thread. I like your approach and explanations, although I dont agree with all of it, which I believe is a good thing which proves I am thinking for myself. I completely agree with your comment I reposted below that its ever evolving , but its also faddish and studies are statistical with lots of variables .

    [Diet and supplementation is an art and science that's ever evolving. What we believed worked well 3-5 years ago may or may not be the case today. It's always changing as science explores more.]

    I am curious as to your thoughts on IRON for endurance athletes? I am a plant based athlete and the only thing I have tested low for is IRON , 2 years ago when I was not plant based. Taking Iron supplement since then and tested within range this year. My understanding is loss of sweat=low iron , hence the reason I was low and probably most endurance athletes maybe low?

    Being a plant based athlete , concentrating mostly on unprocessed whole foods , I have a problem with the words isolate, fortified, extract, concentrate, etc. When taking supplements and protein powders with those words in the description it only means you are consuming something that was processed and or not originally in that product. Having said that I still consume those products like one a day vegan vitamin , iron , fortified almond milk , etc . Just try to minimize and avoid those key processed words as much as possible.
  • @ Sukhi - Great info on Vit D.  I always assumed i got plenty from sunlight so thank you for the info to the contrary.

    I read in a previous post where you had a stress fracture several months back.  I'm just curious if you altered your supplement regimen in any way while recovering from the fracture.  I was in a bike crash on Sunday and broke my greater trochanter and i'm looking for anything that might speed along recovery beyond just time and rest.  thanks!

  • @Naomi, Great to hear. Yes, sugar, wheat, gluten are all inflammatory. Avoiding them are key as they fuel tumours. Check out the book super foods by David Wolffe.

    @Peter, I've never heard of anyone overdosing on D3 (funny how so many people talk about it though). Also remember that "most" people who see their physician are not poster children for radiant health and vitality. So take those comments with a filter.

    @Tim, it's wonderful to be in a place where we can agree to disagree. I don't have all the answers, in fact, not even close... : ) I've even said things a few years ago that I know today are completely wrong. I'm a student and participant too. THanks for your comments, appreciate all off them.
    Iron is something I've personally never struggled with, but I recommend a table spoon of Organic Black Strap Molasses/daily over Iron supplements. Has amazing bioavailabilty and the body just seems to process it well.

    @Mark Funny how my stress fracture came up. Over the past 7 years of being an endurance athlete I've never been injured. The cause was multifaceted, but interestingly enough I began taking a lot less supplements this year to see if I'd notice a change... : ) Needless to say I'm back on the supplement wagon. WHen healing an injury think of what the cell needs for growth and regeneration. Several of the items I listed above I began taking as a result of the injury. I've healed quickly and felt so good I'm not stopping taking any of them. Most of them are just what the cell requires, similar to how a car needs gasoline and engine oil. I'd add tumeric as well, either in your food or supplement, great anti-inflammatory. Lots of raw vegetables in their variety of colors is key too. And stay well hydrated, most of the cell is H2O. Let me know how it goes over the months.


  •  Sukhi - Very interesting discussion here! What is your opinion on dairy for protein? I often have cottage cheese with a salad for lunch. I also have fought low iron for 35 years (distance running), and was happy to hear about the molasses.

  • @Turbie I think it's a moderately good choice. In my opinion it's the growth hormones, antibiotics and pasteurization that robs it of vital nutrients. I was vegan and vegetarian for almost a decade and I've now come back to adding dairy, but it's raw and unpasteurized from grass fed cows (which also gives perfect balance of omega 3:6, good bacteria for GI, optimal digestive enzymes). Actually not sure if you can purchase raw/unpasteurized in the US, but I get mine from a local farmer. Hope this helps. Let me know how the black strap molasses works for you.
  •  @Sukhi, Will definitely look into the raw option here. Thanks!

  • At least here in MA, you can get raw, unpasteurized milk. It's also from local farmer(s).

    @Sukhi - I take glocosamine/chondroitin, not because I've noticed any difference, but more of a preventative thing because so many people swear by it. However, I've also read what you mentioned above, it's bioavailability is extremely low. You mention taking MSM instead - is that essentially for the same purpose, to help protect and/or speed up healing (as it were) of cartilage?
  • @Sukhi-- How often do you get your blood tested? Are the serum levels in your blood consistent with the 20,000 IU of D3 that you are taking daily? Any fears of increased blood toxicity over time?

    Do articles like this scare you at all? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046611/
    "After being commissioned by the Canadian and American governments, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) as of 30 November 2010 the upper limit recommended is 4000 IU per day for ages 9–71+ years" Do you think this is outdated or simply irrelevant because we are endurance athletes or because you are on a plant based diet (or neither).
  • @Ryan MSM, is a little different but serves the same purpose and has shown to have more bioavailability. Better bang for your buck.
  • Thanks - I'll look into the MSM.

    BTW - what are your thoughts on dark chocolate with regards to it's bioavailability for iron and other nutrients? I like the stuff (usually seeking out 70-85% cacao content), and find it a good alternative for what would otherwise be consumed in junk food to satisfy a sweet tooth (obviously within reason - can't go eating 1/4 lb of the stuff at a whack). I figure it's at least got iron, antioxidants and flavonoids, but no idea as to how well that stuff gets ingested and used within the body.

  • @Ryan I believe in moderation dark chocolate is an excellent choice. Far better than "junk" food. I haven't read any studies or articles on it's bioavailability. Keep in mind the higher the % the less sugar. Eg. 85% Dark Chocolate has 15% sugar. Much better than a 60-40%. And I'm sure you know how detrimental sugar is, so even at 15% you'd want to keep it in moderation as you've mentioned. Also know that Cacao is a super food, good thing!
    The benefits of Cacao are: Powerful antioxidant, Beneficial CArdio effects and mediating blood pressure, anti-stroke effect, Improves insulin sensitivity, anti-inflammatory, and is a great source of magnesium.
  •  Hello I am new to the nation so this may not be the proper eddicate for the forum so if so I apolagize. 20,000 iu of vit d is not to high for an athlete in intense trainning. Viit d of 5000 iu is a minimum dose for an adult. The bennefits of vit d for an athlete and even a non athlete are many. I reccomend a minimum of 5000iu to all patients and have no problem taking 20,00 iu a day. the key thing is to do a blood test to find your current status. If low then vit d in high amounts is wonderful. Keep in mind I live in ontario where sunshine is limited. I hope this helps and I look forward to lots of help in the sport because I am a newbie at this game

  •  There is an amazing book titled the cancer killers and it goes over every aspect of lifestyle to reduce your risk of all forms of cancer. It is published by maximized living. this thread on vitamin d is discussed in depth and how it is clinically proven to reduce cancer

  •  Based on what I have read your body can produce significantly more vitamin d from the sun then 4000 iu and that is not considered a problem. I personally take 10-20000iu a day for the last year and my levels are in the normal range. As a canadian who is a dietician I will tell you Canadian policies on health care are outdated

  • @John, Sorry I missed your last question and for the late reply... as you know I've been off the forums for the past several weeks. I used to get blood tests done regularly, a few to several times/year. I learned that for my body, as an athlete with 20,000 IU taken orally as drops, my blood levels are at 65-75 ng/ml. Interesting in that an entire day in the sun never produced anything close to this. Earlier in this thread I spoke about how it takes your body 48 hours to take sunlight and transform it to Vit D, only if you don't use soap in the shower. I tried the no soap thing, but it didn't fly with my wife for very long... : )

    Articles like that don't scare me either. In the end I like to research people and their backgrounds to learn about how they critically think. Personally I have a lot of respect for Dr. Mercola www.mercola.com

    As I said earlier, it's a constant journey of finding what works best for you, but Vit. D levels is are one of the most important blood markers in my opinion for optimal health and performance.

     

  • Curious to know if anyone in the Nation has used Extreme Endurance?  I've used it a lot and it helps lower muscular pain for me.  I recover faster.

    The question I have is: Is this a good idea?  Is masking my muscle pain a good idea or is it allowing me to shortchange recovery?  Should I hold off during the OS and add back to the regimen during race prep?

    Curious to know...

  • I use it as well. I feel good and recover well. My question is whether I am just getting expensive urine and would have the same results without? Hard to do a side by side test.
Sign In or Register to comment.