How much did you improve from training with power?
What kind of improvement did you experience when you started training with power? And what were the keys to getting the most out of the transition?
For context, I'm coming from a solid background of heart rate based training. I have two IMs and quite a few 70.3s under my belt. Last season, I followed EN's HR-based plan and improved my bike split to 5:30 at IMMT from a 5:47 in 2010 at Wisconsin. Is it worth the investment? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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There are numerous threads in this forum about how to get the most out of it. But the first step is to get one and start riding with it. Next is watching the webinar, figuring out how to interpret the data, and asking questions.
Bottom Line - I know of not a single person who said, "Damn! I wish I had never gotten this thing!" Not one.
Don't underestimate the value of a PM to your run time in an IM. You may not improve your bike split, but riding at a steady power level with surely improve your performance in the marathon.
Racing smart is AS IMPORTANT as training smart, and the PM helps a lot with that.
I had never heard of a PM until joining EN and that is no joke. I thought I was kicking some butt and working out until I purchased one of those SWEET toys.
First test I was at 171 watts and I thought I was going to die doing the 20x2 test protocol (there is somewhat of a learning curve to testing-such as how to pace yourself)
2nd test 225 watts and man I was stoaked!!!!
Fast foward to this year and my 3rd OS with EN. I am currently sitting on 270 watts (last tested in June) and my goal after the 14 week Jan OS is 300 watts!!!
So in my mind it is so worth it. If you cant afford one right now check out the trainer road and see where that takes you!!
I gained about 20 watts year over year from my first power test (DEC 2011) to now, but that was without the benefit of EN, just self training, and I'm looking for more than that. I'm very eager to see what I can achieve with power and EN. I'll let you know where I am after OS and 6 weeks of bike-focus... of course, by then, you will have made your decision.
That said, x2 on the value racing with power. Power gives you great information to pace yourself on the bike so that you can have a good run. I never raced a half-iron without power, but I can tell you with certainty that in my first half-distance I benefited greatly in time and enjoyment-of-experience - a good run is just more fun than a crash-burn-slog, even if the crash-burn-slog is a great opportunity to show what you're made of...
I realize this is more subjective than data-driven argument, but as others have said, nobody who trains and races with power wants to go back...
Carl seems to have the most compelling data here...
The racing aspect of a PM is hands down awesome especially on rolling terain. When you know your number and you race that number with minimal spikes the run is a whole new and better ball game.
My vote is get one.
Get it on the xmas list!
Kevin - I just got my first PM a few weeks, so I can't tell you if/how much I've improved - honestly, I never considered getting one before joining EN, b/c I'm just a MOP AG'er doing this for fun. But joining EN I soon realized that a PM can be a valuable tool for maximing the quality of your training and ensuring that you race smart and right, so I took the plunge. So far, I'm super happy, b/c at a minimum I feel that I'm training much more 'informed' and therefore smarter.
I will just say this: if you get a PM (whichever type you decide), be prepared to invest some headspace into understanding what it can and cannot do for you; how to train and race with power; how to analyze power etc. It's only as useful a tool as you are in understanding how to use it. If you don't put the headwork in, well then it's just a fancy device...
For me, 1st OS 222 to 274, 2nd OS 233 to 289, 3rd OS - I should join 300 club by April 2013.
I didn't have near your experience (still don't) before I got a PM, but I can tell you this. I started cycling (I guess you could call it seriously) in the summer of 2008. I rode on HR alone. If I show you where I rode, and my performance, you'd see a pretty dang flat line - very little improvement. Oh, sure - there was a little bit because the first time I rode my bike to work and back (34 miles total) I got home, ate dinner, and (almost) immediately went to bed because I was beat. But once I got to the point where I could do a nice loop that took me a few hours (~45-50 miles) and I was conscious the rest of the day, I barely improved at all. I just didn't really know how to train to get better.
Then, last winter, I plugged into TrainerRoad and started training with 'power'. I put that in quotes because it's not really power, but it gave me number goals to hit. Regardless of the fact that I now know the TR power numbers are not even linear, let alone accurate, with my trainer - they are at least relatively precise. My very first test (2/5/12) gave me an FTP of 200W, and I thought I was going to die. And that was an 8 minute test - nevermind a 20 minute or 2x20'.
But I continued following the TR workouts, which were very similar to the EN workouts - a VO2max session, and lots of FTP work. On the next test, again an 8' version on 3/29, my FTP bumped up to 220W. So, within the span of 2 months, my FTP improved by 10% - all because training with power gave me a resource to train effectively and efficiently. I still didn't have a PM at this time.
I continued TR workouts, and by the end of April my FTP was up to 231W. By this time, I was bumping up FTP by 5 or 6W at a time without testing, doing so when I felt like the workouts were easier, repeatedly, for several days in a row.
A short couple weeks later, on May 15th, I did my first 20' power test, and came back with a number of 244W. If you are keeping score at home, I went from 200W in early February to 244W in mid-May - a 25% improvement in about 3 months. Still no true power meter, admittedly, but I was training like I had one because, as I said, TR is at least precise.
In July I got a PowerTap (and joined EN) and have been riding with it ever since. The rate of improvement has slowed, as I'm currently @ 249W (probably a tad higher, but I haven't retested). Thats less a reflection of being with EN and more a reflection of just reaching the first natural plateau of an activity.
But here's the thing - while a 25% improvement may sound cool and all, what training with power has actually done is return the fun of riding a bike again. Before power I'd only do a bike ride because I felt obligated - sitting my ass on a hard seat for 3 hours wasn't too awful fun .Now I have a little bit of a distraction on my rides. I have a number to hit. I have a goal to reach for, sustain, and keep. A 5' easy rest segment is no longer a bore just watching scenery go by anymore, because I'm too busy recovering and getting myself ready for the next segment. I'm sure there is some of that with HR training, but I honestly can't comment on it because when I was HR training, I still wasn't doing it right. Others have mentioned the lag with HR, and sometimes I am shocked at how my HR responds, and I wonder how much more difficult it must be to be going solely on HR. Power just takes all the guesswork out of it. With regards to your situation, where you already have bike splits I could only dream of (my one and only IM was a 7:30, but I lolly-gagged, stopped @ special needs, stopped to chat with the family, stopped half a dozen times for the porta-potty), maybe it wouldn't make as much of a difference - but thats why I mention the mental aspect of it being able to make bike rides fun again.
Kevin, lots of good stuff thus far. So rather than add more content about bumps in power let me give you real measurement of improvement.
Context:
- i am 53, have raced many IMs and ooddles of HIMs since 2002
- I am/was a die hard HR training guy, i even do training with HR clinics for running outfits
- in 2008 I trained very hard with HR and thought I was the fittest I would ever be
- in 2010 my first year with EN i remained training with HR and felt as fit as 2008
- in 2012 I switched to training with power
The measures:
- first race of 2012 a HIM end of May, 4th time doing it. at 4 years older, I PR'd the bike and the run never thought I would best 2008 when I won AG,
- 3 weeks later in June I did another HIM, 4th time again, I shaved a couple of minutes off of my bike of 2008 and just missed PR'ng the run from 2010 . time in 2008 5:05 time in 2012 5:06. Swim was slower.
- In Aug i tackled Ironman Canada for the 5th time and yep, bested my 2008 PRs time by 18min on bike and took off 27min off the run.
So these are real results, no wattage needs to be advertised. 4 years older and I was crushing my 2008/2010 PRs.
As said before in this thread, training with power does provide better feedback than HR, the real payoff is racing with power and the knowledge gained to set up your best run.
I too am an HR guy coming into EN but you gusy have convinced me the PM is worth the investment. MY understanding the power tap goes in the rear hub is this correct? Second part of that question is do people train and race with same PM wheel or can it be switched out from road to tri easily?
Yup. The Powertap is in the rear hub. It replaces your regular hub, so you have to get a wheel built around it. A lot of people use the same PT wheel for racing and training. I have a PT in an aluminum rim (Hed) wheel, and I switch it between my road and tri bikes no problem. I can put a wheelcover on it for racing (on the tri bike- it looks
I've been at this a while. I just pulled up some of notes from Training Peaks. You can see my progression from back of the back to a little closer to the front
In the last couple of years I've bounced around the 290-305 range. Now closer to 290
Off season training plan NP
test 1 215 (10/20/07) - First EN OS test
test 2 233 (11/24/07)
test 3 259 (1/2/08)
test 4 269 (1/29/08)
test 5 250 (3/17/08)
test 6 275 (4/8/08)
test 7 279 (6/30/08)
test 8 260 (10/7/08 - first time on trainer in months = disaster)
Lower FT from 279 to 275 for now.
test 9 286 (11/3/08)
test 10 289 (2/23/09)
@Joe. PT is in the rear hub. It's great for one wheel, multiple bikes. I have one and I just swap the wheel between road and tri bike. I use a wheel cover when racing. Crank based power meters like Quark and SRM are great if you have multiple wheels and one bike.
@Joe - there are a few different systems. I've seen a number of EN people recently invest in the Quarq, which measures power at the crank. There is also a new system from Look on the pedals, but the reviews I've read wouldn't encourage me to invest there. I believe PowerTap is the most popular system out there, and yes, that is in the rear hub.
These are the tradeoffs as I understand them: the quarq goes on the crank; it's nice and light, and you can do whatever you want for wheels, which makes it easy if you want to swap out racing and training wheels. On the other hand, Quarq is expensive - runs about $1800 up.
My tri-bike doesn't have training wheels... I bought a DT 585 rear wheel with a built-in PT for about $750, which was a pretty good buy. It isn't that light, but it's light enough for me; I train and race on the same wheels (* gasp * from the audience...).
I can't swap it out for a fancy racy wheel; but I'm capped on spending until my kids got to college anyway (The Girl is 9, Boy 11, so that will be a while...unless I have a Doogie Howser in the house, in which case I'm going to have to help with med school anyway...) and I was psyched to get ANT+ power. To be honest, it's more important to me to have power information than a fancy racing wheelset.
In general, you can get in on ANT+ PT power for about $1000 by buying a rear wheel; you could talk to the coaches about deals with Wheelbuilder; EN has an arrangement with them. That's a bit less expensive than the Quarq, but you don't get the flexibility you get with the Quarq.
If you go PT, then you would typically race and train on the same wheels. If you are going to buy two PT wheelsets and swap 'em depending on whether you are training or racing, then you are probably better off investing in the Quarq, but there are certainly people out there who have multiple PT wheelsets.
Hope this helps!
Bingo.
Initially reported a modest but measurable gain since acquiring power...
Based on the test this morning, I am now at 255w, up from 227, which was up from about 217, so I now have another 28w on top of the initial 10 I reported, which goes to show the difference between power, and power*EN. I see EN as the force, and power as the force-multiplier, but a case could certainly be made in the other direction. The value of the both-together is clearly working for me.
Nice work!
The real value of training with power is that it shows you that there is no magic. No "aerobic engine, mysterious aerobic adaptations" that you're chasing. Instead, you learn the secret is to WORK and work HARD. Put weight on the bar and the lift it. Very simple.
Alot. Now, it's taken me 2.5 years to learn how to 'train' with power, but I've noticed that a schedule/direction/plan seems to keep me moving forward with reasonable gains every couple of months, including coming off of transition phases after A races.
But, the most valuable thing that I've gotten from it is the ability to improve my bike/tri world in less training time due to the efficient nature of what Rich just mentioned (the intervals/recovery are not too different than doing sets/recovery on something like a bench or squat, etc). More Tri progress in less overall time -> more me time in my family/work/recovery life!
The larger N1 is how much I have learned from training with power. I sat through webinars, I read books and learned how to apply the race I brung to a race. At a race last year someone came up to me and complemented how well/fast I ride. With barley being above 200 watt I thought that was pretty cool.
The truth was in the execution of the power. When to lay it on and when to back off .... priceless knowing the numbers that allow me a strong run and not spend my run in biking.
My n=1. YMMV.