Race Rehearsal results, Any Suggestions?

John Bayone

Sorry for the format at the bottom, it is just how it got copied over from excel.

On Saturday and Sunday I did the 2 day race rehersal for Goofy Challenge (13.1 Saturday & 26.2 Sunday) for next month (5 weeks out) as per the plan from Coach Patrick.    Any comments that you might have as far as pacing would be great.  I intentionally went a little faster on Saturday to see if there would be anything in the legs to push the last three miles on Sunday.  Hard to tell if this worked out.  Overall I felt fine on Saturday.  Sunday, it was about 46 degrees, windy and pouring rain....I was soaked.  After the first 5 miles I removed the rain gear bottoms that I had over my shorts since they were drenched, and I figured they would be too warm after 10 more miles and I did not want to over heat.  This kinda back fired since by about mile 15  - my quads and knees were freezing.  Which after stopping to get a quick drink took a couple hundred yards to break up the rust that had quickly settled in, in just a couple of minutes.  I was not standing still just kinda walking in a circle in the parking lot and then back on the trail and running again.  This made it hard to push the last 3 miles Sunday, but there was energy in the system just the stiffness starting to buildup.

Nutrition, Friday morning pancakes for breakfast, and watched what I ate rest of the day.  Saturday run, hydrated before, and no gels since it was kinda a quick.  Saturday Pancakes again, after the run, and about the same with a little pasta for dinner.  Nothing too heavy.  Run on Sunday, gel every half hour for a total of 4 over the 2 hours and 30 minutes.  After each 5 miles I would stop quickly to grab a bottle of Gatorade out of the truck, take it with me and sip it while running the following loop.  To do it over again, I should have taken some to drink on that first loop to try to have more sodium in the system, but it ws kinda hard to think I needed to drink when it was raining, it was cool out, and it was work just dodging the mud puddles on the trail.

If all goes well, the game plan race weekend it to take the 13.1 on Saturday conservatively....my PR is 1:44:54 from Oct. 12...So perhaps nothing faster than 8:45/mile which would be around 1:55.  Then on Sunday follow the pacing guidelines of the first 6 at MP+30" and then slowly work the average down until about mile 20.  Overall goal is to do whatever it takes to be able to have the legs to push the last 6 miles. (yea I know everyone's goal and it might not be easy).

Any help with final pacing suggestions would be great?  Using the Vdot from the 13.1 in October and subtracting another 1, then use that pace?  Or go out a little slower?

thank you for your help.

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Current (22:35) Aug. 2012 5k Vdot =  43.2 = MP OF 8:13
Current (1:44:54) Oct. 2012 1/2 Marathon Vdot =  42.6  =MP of 8:18
RR day 1	http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/VTZOQ5FZPPB4IA33TCX423D4UA
RR day 2	http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/Y4C3TRDY57QN4CL7PB6ASURAWQ
(on day 2, short stop at parking lot to get drink after each 5 mile loop & to get rid of some very wet rain gear)
DAY 2						DAY 1
Total Time: 2:37:54
<form> id="aspnetForm" method="post" action="Y4C3TRDY57QN4CL7PB6ASURAWQ" name="aspnetForm"> 0:00:00 - 2:37:54 </form>						<form> id="aspnetForm" action="VTZOQ5FZPPB4IA33TCX423D4UA" method="post" name="aspnetForm">   </form> Total
Total Time: 2:37:54						0:00:00 - 1:02:28
Moving Time: 2:30:28						Total Time: 1:02:28
Distance: 18.01 mi						Distance: 7.79 mi
rTSS: 238 (0.91)						rTSS: 104 (0.95)
NGP: 08:13 min/mi						NGP: 07:54 min/mi
Gain: 443 ft						Gain: 213 ft
Loss: - 413 ft						Loss: - 231 ft
Grade:0.0 %						Grade:-0.0 %
	Min	Avg	Max				Min	Avg	Max
Speed (mph):	0.6	7.2	9.1			Speed (mph):	0.6	7.5	9.3
Pace (min/mi):	11:05	8:21	6:35			Pace (min/mi):	10:53	8:01	6:27
Elev (ft):	105	142	184			Elev (ft):	17	49	230
<form> id="aspnetForm" method="post" action="Y4C3TRDY57QN4CL7PB6ASURAWQ" name="aspnetForm"> Peak 1/2 Marathon </form>						<form> id="aspnetForm" action="VTZOQ5FZPPB4IA33TCX423D4UA" method="post" name="aspnetForm">   </form> Peak 10 km
0:42:27 - 2:37:53						0:01:45 - 0:51:03
Total Time: 1:55:26						Total Time: 0:49:18
Moving Time: 1:48:00						Distance: 6.21 mi
Distance: 13.11 mi						rTSS: 83 (0.95)
rTSS: 174 (0.93)						NGP: 07:52 min/mi
NGP: 08:07 min/mi						Gain: 157 ft
Gain: 324 ft						Loss: - 231 ft
Loss: - 313 ft						Grade:-0.2 %
Grade:0.0 %							Min	Avg	Max
	Min	Avg	Max			Speed (mph):	5.7	7.6	9.3

cgres123

For the Sunday run take your Vdot subtract 2.5 points from it. With that new pace go out 15 sec slower than MP for 6 miles. At 6 miles run the next 14 miles at MP minus 5 sec. When you hit 20 miles that will equal out your MP. At that point the race is on for you so you can kill it or maintain your pacing of MP.

BTW where you from and where is this race , I'm in South jersey ?

John Bayone

Thanks dave, sounds reasonable. When you did Philadelphia last month, did you work from your 5k vdot-2.5, or a dot from a longer race/run? How did that play out in the end. I remember there was lots of discussion on dot adjustments on place planning.
the race I am doing is at disney world in Florida. I live in Brick, NJ.....which is kinda "south jersey" depending where you are standing,...lol. maybe more like central from. Glassboro.
how is your recovery/out season going?

William Crawford

I have run Goofy three times (this year will make 4). It is extremely crowded at the start. Disney does use a corral system, but the first few miles are always packed. I mention this to let you know your pace for the first two miles may be slower than you want or you may have to work harder to make goal pace (sprinting in and out of congested areas).

As for your pacing plan, I have used a similar plan and have always felt fresh during the marathon on Sunday. I think running the half marathon at below regular HM pace actually loosens the legs up for the marathon. I may be wrong, but mentally that is they way I approach it.

cgres123

John, yes I worked my Vdot from my 5 k time. It played out perfect for the marathon, my best time ever. As mentioned by William above about the crowds, Philly was way to crowed with an additional 3000 runners from NY. I didn't think it was worth the effort to run around the people, jump up on the sidewalk or play excuse me for an hour. I hopped into a faster coral to offset my pace. I was very happy with the coaches plan and pacing.

Recovery is bam... done ! I'm moving on starting up with some biking on the trainer gearing up for JOS and still running 3 x week.

Best O luck in your race. Pace it well and you will finish strong!

John Bayone

Hi William, I ran the marathon there in Jan. 2012, and thought it was great. I started in the B corral and was baffled when not even 1/2 mile into it there were already people starting to walk in front of me...in the dark. I guess they were doing a run/walk method, but I was not ready for that so early. I think the reality check last year was at about mile 14 when I was passing people that all I could think there was no way they ran the first 13 miles in under 2 hours, until I remembered that some people were doing the chip & dale marathon relay.
Have you had a chance to really look at the new Marathon course for this year? I only ran the old course once, but thought it was ok.

Thanks, Lynn, I will look into something to keep the legs alive in between. I had not thought of the ice bath, maybe I will try that one weekend before to see how it feels. Did you run the goofy there in 2010, from the looks of it (in youtube videos), it must have been tough with that freezing rain and temps. Last year I took an old long sleeve t-shirt and ran with it for the first few miles until I donated it. Would you suggest a pair of throw away sweat pants too, if it is less than 40 degrees at the start?

Thanks again, Dave...I will try to look more at the folks starting near and infront of me this year. I wanted to take the beginning easy last year and still found myself behind crowds that were hard to get around. still have a few weeks left and might re-test my 5k Vdot before hand to see how it all plays out. Congratulations on the great execution at Philadelphia, always nice to see hard work pay off.
Good luck with the OS plan.

coop6

John, I'm in for the Goofy challenge as well this year. Last time I did it two years ago, I subtracted 10 minutes off my half and marathon PR's and ran at those paces for both. The marathon was pretty much an easy 20 miles with 10K of clowning around and photo ops. I wasn't in EN at the time, and didn't know what a VDot was, but those paces worked out fine. I don't know what I'm doing yet this year, but it looks as if we have similar Vdots. I haven't decided how much goofing around I'm going to do, versus running.

Definitely bring some throw away clothes for the start. It was freezing the year I did it, and I wished for some pants to keep on until the start. You have to be there soooo early, it's a long time to freeze.