Cory, don't worry about the actual wattage numbers. Who knows? I could be 50 pounds heavier than you are and thus be weaker when you break it down into W/Kg. What I'm trying to focus on is the % of FTP that I'm able to maintain during these intervals. Tomorrow's run VO2max workout is going to be humbling and Thursday's bike workout with those 1/1's is probably going to be pretty ugly. It's going to be a decent learning experience for me. I'll be curious to see if we're both affected the same way or not.
I donated platelets along with a unit of whole blood. The routine is that they take out a small aliquot of blood, spin it down, take off the platelet fraction and reconstitute what is left with a plasma substitute with Ca EGTA as an anticoagulant and send it back into your arm. This is repeated until they get enough platelets without running you too low. Once they have enough platelets they siphon off the whole blood and store it away. As I understand it, they put back some volume with that plasma substitute. I don't know if there is albumin in it though.
The higher HR might be due to dehydration but it could also just be due to the oxygen demand from your muscles requiring that many more heart beats to deliver the amount of oxygen to get it done. If a given heart beat normally delivers 100 ml of blood carrying X molecules of oxygen, you need more beats to deliver that same amount of oxygen when 100 ml of blood now only has X-12% oxygen molecules.
Well Peter, that's a good way to think of oxygen consumption when our muscles do work, short on the oxygen carriers (hgb). I have both the track workout and speed skating practice tonight. I'm thinking about skipping the track workout and just do the intervals at practice. I have (before blood donation) been doing all Team EN workouts and ice practice tue-thu nights (1&1/2 hour of usually some form of "sprints", since our longest race is 1500m and is only a little under 3 min for the slower skaters, that's what they call distance, hahaha). So it will be interesting to see how the short bursts on the track and ice take their toll on my muscles. I have noticed an increase in "burning" in my legs since blood donation. I wonder what that tells me? Low O2? Then later in the day just a heavy tired feeling. At the beginning of OS I felt like that but not longer than a couple of days.
So, not sure what that adds to your research. But it tells me not to donate in OS. And I will see how long this lasts, so that I don't donate close to racing.
This was a hard workout to make it through. I made it through in spite of the really cold temps and wind. I managed to hold my 200's to a 43-47 range and my 400's were all 100-105 seconds. Those paces are faster than I should be running but like my bike comparison, I think my VO2max is higher than 120% of my threshold. Since my times were steady, even though they were uncomfortable, I think the workout went okay. My HR was higher than it normally is but that is to be expected. I'm surprised I didn't have as big of a drop off in times as I expected.
I've noticed that my recovery is definitely compromised. It is 6 days out from the donation and while I can meet my previously established VO2max target for 1 minute, it becomes harder and harder to match it with each successive interval with only 1 minute of rest. As the workout went on I was increasingly exhausted and you can see the power drops down to nothing as I have to just stop pedaling for a few seconds and slowly bring it back up. It also takes longer for my HR to come back down compared to before the donation. At the end of the workout I could only handle a tempo pace of about 0.79 FTP for 8 minutes and my HR was up where it usually is for sweetspot and a little higher (.85-.90 FTP).
This pattern makes me wonder about the other things in the red blood cells besides hemoglobin/O2/CO2 carrying capacity. I suspect there is also acid buffering that I am missing and will be for a while longer. Ouch.
The day after the first run and bike VO2max workouts post blood donation and I am having some pretty thorough delayed-onset muscles soreness in my legs. Especially after the bike 3 x (5 x 1/1's) on Thursday. I feel like I went to the gym instead and did burnout sets on my quads, butt and hamstrings. Making me think that trying to hit my wattage numbers with reduced red blood cells wound up recruiting muscle fibers that normally didn't have to work so much.
Good point about the supplements, Carl. I realize that not everyone can look at the Trainer Road workout traces to see the differences between the before and after workouts. It is quite a big difference especially in the power traces.
Thanks for doing that, Tom. You say 30 days for full recovery? I sure hope you're right. It turns out that the end of my NOS program will have bike and run tests that will fall right around that time so it will be interesting to see if I've made any gains concurrent with recovering my usual HCT and RBC level.
What approach do you take to 'ride out' those 2 weeks right after the donation? It has been a rough first week.
I think today was the first time I was willing to do the Saturday brick since the blood donation. I really pushed hard to meet the FTP intervals of 20, 20 and 10 and it was really hard to do it. Trying to run HMP or even MP after that was impossible. I managed to eek out EP over a mildly hilly course for 30 minutes and was never so glad to step back inside my home.
Even though my HR was going into the 170's to achieve it I was glad to be able to hit FTP for so long. The cost to my body was much too high though for a race situation.
DEFINITELY DO NOT GOVE WHOLE BLOOD A WEEK BEFORE A RACE... :-)
So, Friday will be two weeks since I gave the unit of blood. I've been pushing really hard to keep meeting my workout goals in spite of what it does to my heart. It was awful in the beginning but I'm starting to come around. I'll be donating just platelets this Friday so I'll get a chance to see what my RBC numbers are after 2 weeks.
In today's 12',20',12' FTP workout I was able to hold on at or just above FTP and even include some last minute bursts. My HR managed to stay back down in the threshold range for a lot more of the intervals than last week, although my HR monitor was acting freaky a few times.
I'm back from the blood donation center. Two weeks ago I donated a whole blood unit and wound up with a HCT of 37, down from 42. Today I donated a couple units of platelets so my RBCs are still as they were this morning. My RBC count is 4.15 x 10^6/uL, my HGB is 13.3 g/dL and my HCT was 38.1%. Those values are reasonable for two weeks after a donation. We'll see what tomorrow is like. I may take it outside since the temps will be in the 50's.
If you decide to do this, be prepared to feel like crap for a while as you try to do these workouts. Also, do it EARLY in the OS or even better, BEFORE you start the OS. The way the workouts ramp up and the tests at 8 and 14 weeks come at you donating during it will kill ya. I did it at the end of week 8, right after that test, and regret it now.
So, 5 weeks ago I donated a unit of whole blood and it was the end of NOS week 9. I just did the final bike test for the NOS and all in all, I have to say that I have concluded that donating whole blood late in the OS program is not a good idea. It made those last 5 weeks very difficult. I mean very very tough to last through the workouts and I think it affected my muscles in terms of their ability to get the supplies they needed to execute the workouts AND the subsequent recovery efforts necessary to rebuild and get stronger. Yes, I made some small bike gains in these last 5 weeks but I feel that I could have done better. So, if you're going to donate blood and you're in the JOS or some other hard strengthening program do it sooner rather than later because you're in for some hard times if you wait too long.
Last NOS bike test for me today. http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/192517 - I still went out too hard. It seemed okay but in both intervals I soon faded as my HR quickly got into the 180's and that's where I really feel the suffering. VO2max 320w (169 HR) -> 337w (177 HR) -> 343w (181 HR) FTP numbers: 242w (168 HR) -> 259w (173 HR) -> 262w (180 HR) W/KG: 3.04 -> 3.22 -> 3.38 (It helped to lose a few holiday pounds down to 171) A 7% bump in VO2max and an 8% FTP bump. W/Kg went up 11%.
Posted By Natalie Pilon on 11 Feb 2013 05:37 PM absolutely fascinating read. Thank you for posting all your observations.
That's very kind of you. Thanks. Now I know better...
On another note, that week of unstructured activity made a huge difference in my comfort at my new FTP when I got on the bike last Saturday. I only did one set of 20' and then a build up past FTP as a followup but it wasn't as awful as those last couple weeks of the OS.
Comments
I donated platelets along with a unit of whole blood. The routine is that they take out a small aliquot of blood, spin it down, take off the platelet fraction and reconstitute what is left with a plasma substitute with Ca EGTA as an anticoagulant and send it back into your arm. This is repeated until they get enough platelets without running you too low. Once they have enough platelets they siphon off the whole blood and store it away. As I understand it, they put back some volume with that plasma substitute. I don't know if there is albumin in it though.
The higher HR might be due to dehydration but it could also just be due to the oxygen demand from your muscles requiring that many more heart beats to deliver the amount of oxygen to get it done. If a given heart beat normally delivers 100 ml of blood carrying X molecules of oxygen, you need more beats to deliver that same amount of oxygen when 100 ml of blood now only has X-12% oxygen molecules.
Well Peter, that's a good way to think of oxygen consumption when our muscles do work, short on the oxygen carriers (hgb). I have both the track workout and speed skating practice tonight. I'm thinking about skipping the track workout and just do the intervals at practice. I have (before blood donation) been doing all Team EN workouts and ice practice tue-thu nights (1&1/2 hour of usually some form of "sprints", since our longest race is 1500m and is only a little under 3 min for the slower skaters, that's what they call distance, hahaha). So it will be interesting to see how the short bursts on the track and ice take their toll on my muscles. I have noticed an increase in "burning" in my legs since blood donation. I wonder what that tells me? Low O2? Then later in the day just a heavy tired feeling. At the beginning of OS I felt like that but not longer than a couple of days.
So, not sure what that adds to your research. But it tells me not to donate in OS. And I will see how long this lasts, so that I don't donate close to racing.
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/144559
I've noticed that my recovery is definitely compromised. It is 6 days out from the donation and while I can meet my previously established VO2max target for 1 minute, it becomes harder and harder to match it with each successive interval with only 1 minute of rest. As the workout went on I was increasingly exhausted and you can see the power drops down to nothing as I have to just stop pedaling for a few seconds and slowly bring it back up. It also takes longer for my HR to come back down compared to before the donation. At the end of the workout I could only handle a tempo pace of about 0.79 FTP for 8 minutes and my HR was up where it usually is for sweetspot and a little higher (.85-.90 FTP).
This pattern makes me wonder about the other things in the red blood cells besides hemoglobin/O2/CO2 carrying capacity. I suspect there is also acid buffering that I am missing and will be for a while longer. Ouch.
Just be careful.......
What approach do you take to 'ride out' those 2 weeks right after the donation? It has been a rough first week.
Even though my HR was going into the 170's to achieve it I was glad to be able to hit FTP for so long. The cost to my body was much too high though for a race situation.
DEFINITELY DO NOT GOVE WHOLE BLOOD A WEEK BEFORE A RACE... :-)
In today's 12',20',12' FTP workout I was able to hold on at or just above FTP and even include some last minute bursts. My HR managed to stay back down in the threshold range for a lot more of the intervals than last week, although my HR monitor was acting freaky a few times.
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/150463
So, 5 weeks ago I donated a unit of whole blood and it was the end of NOS week 9. I just did the final bike test for the NOS and all in all, I have to say that I have concluded that donating whole blood late in the OS program is not a good idea. It made those last 5 weeks very difficult. I mean very very tough to last through the workouts and I think it affected my muscles in terms of their ability to get the supplies they needed to execute the workouts AND the subsequent recovery efforts necessary to rebuild and get stronger. Yes, I made some small bike gains in these last 5 weeks but I feel that I could have done better. So, if you're going to donate blood and you're in the JOS or some other hard strengthening program do it sooner rather than later because you're in for some hard times if you wait too long.
Last NOS bike test for me today. http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/192517 - I still went out too hard. It seemed okay but in both intervals I soon faded as my HR quickly got into the 180's and that's where I really feel the suffering.
VO2max 320w (169 HR) -> 337w (177 HR) -> 343w (181 HR)
FTP numbers: 242w (168 HR) -> 259w (173 HR) -> 262w (180 HR)
W/KG: 3.04 -> 3.22 -> 3.38 (It helped to lose a few holiday pounds down to 171)
A 7% bump in VO2max and an 8% FTP bump. W/Kg went up 11%.
On another note, that week of unstructured activity made a huge difference in my comfort at my new FTP when I got on the bike last Saturday. I only did one set of 20' and then a build up past FTP as a followup but it wasn't as awful as those last couple weeks of the OS.