WarmUp time included in total session duration??

zwuba

I'm just curious on how to understand this Saturdays run session... From the plan it says MP out / HMP back with a duration of 40min - does that now mean 20min MP followed by a 20min HMP (so without WarmUp) or is the WarmUp included in the total duration which would then mean 15min WU + 13min MP + 12min HMP? 



So the basic question would be: 

Is the WarmUp duration included in the shown training session duration or not?!?

Satish Punna

Hi Stefan.  Welcome aboard!

I asked a similar question when I started way back in Novemeber, and there didn't seem to be any specific guidance. When I started doing these sessions, I did the standard warmup (with strides), then split the remaining time between MP and HMP about 50/50.  For the shorter ones I just started out at MP and about halfway went to HMP with no warmup (this was tough).  For the last several sessions I stopped doing the standard warmup and just do the run as a progression, starting out easy  for first km, and progressing each subsequent km up to HMP.  I usually end up running the last 50% of the run close to or at HMP, sometimes a bit faster at the end.  I like this the best, particularly when I am forced to the treadmill but even outside.  Just an idea, may work for you.

Brenda Ross

Yes, the workout should include the warm-up. The coaches are not great at math so sometimes it does not add and in those cases you make the decision to either shorten the warm-up or the cool-down with the main focus being on completing the MS set. Remember, that our programs are all about time saving, so like Satish says above, he likes to take the shorter one and just gradually build up into the MP heading into HMP. If you are looking for an answer from one of the coaches you would need to post this in the micro thread.

russG

Hi Stefan - I wondered the same thing out the gate and based on my own judgment - not to be confused with that of a coach or WSM - decided on this:

A full warm-up (always), including about a mle of z1/2 and a few strides, then I make a decision.  If I feel great then I do the full time on top of the warm-up.  If I feel fatigued then I deduct the warmup and go a little shorter.

My thinking - these runs, unlike the TP and IP runs, are a bit less mathematically precise - they are designed to give us low-stress training miles at a pace comparable to a long-course race pace.  If you can handle it physically (e.g. no injuries, still able to make the next workout) then do the warm-up and then start your MP to HMP progression.  If your body needs more recovery than it's getting, then go for the remaining time.  If you really need recovery then call it after the strides. 

Bottom line - this time doesn't give you a tremendous return on investment but it does round out your high-intensity training, it's fun and low-pressure compared with the TP and IP runs, and if you can tolerate the load and have the time, it will mprove your running. 

Hope this helps!

Satish Punna

I like Russ's approach and may try to incorporate this into some future saturday runs.

William Jenks

Here's seconding the "coaches not good at math". Throughout the OS, some of the bike workouts will take longer than the 60 or 75' it says....though not insanely so. If you have less time than is needed, you can shorten the warmup. A warmup I like is a few min easy then 3 x 1'FTP(1') and a few min easy again. It's 15 minutes if you do 5 min easy periods. You can cut them to 3' or so if you need to.

zwuba

Thx for the good advices - that clears my mind now

But as I already have your attention here I may ask another thing ... if the plan says "Run Second" for the "Activitiy" does that mean this should always be the second session for that day or something else?

rkling

I guess I would approach it this way: if the Saturday run session is a second session as a Brick, you shouldn't need a warm up. If the second session run is a stand-alone, if it has been a few hours, a warm up before the MS would be reasonable. Whether it is the full w/u or an abbreviated one is dependent on how your body responds.

While we, as the typical Type A triathlete want to follow exactly what the coaches say, part of the learning that you have as an athlete is to find what works for you, and figure out if it makes sense.

As far as running second, IIRC the coaches have changed the duration of the run in the past based on whether you run first or second. The idea of "running on tired legs" has never been shown to do anything more than increase the risk of injury, since running form invariably breaks down. So, if you are Bricking the run, it usually has been 1/2 of the time you'd otherwise be running (to decrease that risk).