Power numbers

david ware

I do the numbers that we are supposed to do but just started thinking about this and there is a misconnect in my brain (not unusual...)  Lets say I do the test and get an NP or 200.  My FTP is then 190 (200 x .95.)  I then look at the workout and it says 2 x 8' @ 95-100% (180 - 190.)  That 180 is only 90% for 2 x 8' versus what I just tested (200) for 20'  In other words, if I can ride 200W for 20' why would I not want to ride 200W for 2 x 8'?

Rumpole

2 things:
1. you can. In fact, you could probably slightly over or undershoot and get the same stimulus. Unless you have a CT, 10w is a pretty narrow range even inside, and outside impossible to hold (for me anyway). If you're going to reach, do it on the bike, but be aware it may mess up your next w/o.
2. For intervals 20 min or less, use AP not NP.

zwuba

When you did the Test correctlyt his will be hard enough for sure. If not redo the test

jhpiii

David- That is actually exactly what I do. Right or wrong, the sets feel too easy at my "tested" FTP. So I do my intervals at 100% of my 20 min max.

rkling

What everyone else said. But, the idea is that you are also trying to be consistent with your training. If you exceed the levels of your workout, but are too trashed to do the following day's (or days') workout(s), then pushing yourself that hard is going to be counterproductive. At 95-100% FTP, you're getting enough of a training stimulus that you'll get positive adaptation. Remember, your FTP is the level you are supposed to be able to hold for 60 minutes. So, theoretically, you should be able to do ALL of your intervals at this level. But that's hard enough that you're much more at risk of breaking down.

rmiller

I think the answer is that the FTP is a test of what you are capable of when you are well rested, motivated, and have recovery time afterwards. During a workout plan, all those are compromised to some degree - so if you tested @ NP=200W for 20', if you were to repeat that day after day, fatigue would quickly build up because of the recovery time required.
So, plans have you back off just a touch so that you can hit workouts on a regular basis without blowing up 5 days into a plan.

Al Truscott

Posted By Richard Ling on 14 Jan 2013 01:33 PM

What everyone else said. But, the idea is that you are also trying to be consistent with your training. If you exceed the levels of your workout, but are too trashed to do the following day's (or days') workout(s), then pushing yourself that hard is going to be counterproductive. At 95-100% FTP, you're getting enough of a training stimulus that you'll get positive adaptation. Remember, your FTP is the level you are supposed to be able to hold for 60 minutes. So, theoretically, you should be able to do ALL of your intervals at this level. But that's hard enough that you're much more at risk of breaking down.

+1. This is the primary reason not to overachieve on FTP workouts in the OS. Consider the following:

• There are three VERY HARD cycling workouts a week for the next 14 weeks. Consistency in performing them is more important then squeezing out every last ounce of effort one day, only to miss 1 wko every week or two from fatigue.
• As the OS progresses, not only do you accumulate fatigue, but the intervals also get longer. Now, in week 12, I'm doing 45-55 minutes of FTP intervals each Wko, not 16 like at the start. BIG difference.
• personal note...my max HR in the test was 151. During the interval wkos, I hit max of 137-139. At that lower level, I can recover in less than a day. At the 151 level, it would be like running an all out 5K race 3 days a week. Plus thentwo hard running workouts each week. Anyone here able to sustain that over 14 weeks?

bottom line...@95-100% of FTP, the OS wkos WILL improve your FTP if you perform them as prescribed on a consistent basis. For further insight into results and risks of trying to go for broke in OS wkos, read the "over schieving" post in the wiki (iPad wont let me give link.

kens1964

I can't explain the exercise physiology part of this concept (at least in great detail), but not all effective intervals are threshold intervals. You are referring to subthreshold intervals in the range of 90-95% of your FTP. Here is a cut and paste section from a reference, and below that it the hyperlink to the entire reference. The quote does use HR, but the general idea applies.



Sub-Threshold Power Intervals



VO2 max intervals and threshold power intervals are the two most time effective ways to increase performance. But there is one major problem: high intensity intervals only work when you finish them. If you do not manage to maintain the correct intensity throughout the interval session, the effectiveness decreases. You will achieve better training if you choose an intensity with a higher success rate.



It is my experience that the success rate of high intensity intervals is lower than sub-maximum intensity intervals. Still, sub-threshold power intervals can still offer significant improvements when made in appropriate doses. Also there is an argument that there is a physiological sweet spot because you can train at quite a high oxygen consumption without going anaerobic. Thus, you will give a great lift to your aerobic system (and almost nothing to your anaerobic performance).



Example: 4 x 15min slightly below threshold power. If you use a heart rate monitor, try to stay 5-10 beats below your threshold heart rate. If you use a power meter, these intervals could be done with a power output at 90-95% of your functional threshold power.



http://www.training4cyclists.com/threshold-power/

Joseph Lombardi

 Why establish an FTP then?...Progressive Training is not about going all-out every workout just because you can...its about have a benchmark and having the discipline to train to it...I can run a 5:50 mile...I don't do my Marathon training miles at 5:50...because that is not what I'm going to be running for 26.2 miles...you're training different energy systems and muscle fibers....when I run tempo miles @ 6:45 (or whatever)....same with the bike....your not gonna ride at your FTP for 5hours....and training at your FTP all the time is going to eventually run you into a brick wall/deadend/training cul de sac........at the least...or impact your next workout....or worse an injury....plain and simple.

ezellrh

The only thing that I would add is that when I was done with my FTP test, I literally collapsed on my bike and couldn't move for a few minutes. I cannot imagine working that hard three times a week for 14 weeks, mental explosion!

Now that I'm near the end of my current OS and am staring at the 20/20/15 FTP workout this weekend (after a full week of OS style fun), I'm not regretting maintaining a 95% target early on. It means I haven't missed a bike workout.

Rumpole

Posted By Roy Ezell on 14 Jan 2013 02:10 PM

The only thing that I would add is that when I was done with my FTP test, I literally collapsed on my bike and couldn't move for a few minutes. I cannot imagine working that hard three times a week for 14 weeks, mental explosion!



Now that I'm near the end of my current OS and am staring at the 20/20/15 FTP workout this weekend (after a full week of OS style fun), I'm not regretting maintaining a 95% target early on. It means I haven't missed a bike workout.

Those scare me.

Peter Wick

If you stick to the plan and manage your work ethic you'll gain the fitness to accomplish that stuff, Chris. Plus, you'll make gains to set a higher FTP. If you overdo it you run a high risk of burning out.

benvanmarcke

To put it in another number, it's easy to overachieve once, twice, three times.... But the outseason is 98 days long. In order to get there and continue to be able to finish 98 days successfully you simply can not try to overdo it. Or stick to the plan till the end of week 10, if you still feel like doing intervals over your FTP then go ahead!