Bought a pair of Newtons recently. Question about the break-in period.
Is the guidance to run a short distance and then build up over the course of time because of the mid/forefoot striking thing or because of the lug thing? I'm accustomed to running with a midfoot strike. I'm not perfect at it but I'm used to it. Just sounds like a pain in my ass to go for a run, change shoes and then run another mile. I'm not saying I'm going to go run 8-10 miles in them but I'd be happier starting off at three miles assuming their guidance is due to running form as opposed to the lug. If it's all about getting used to the lug then I'll do what I need to do.
I guess that was a wordy way of asking if a midfoot striker needs to break in a pair of Newtons... or break yourself into a pair of Newtons as they like to say.
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Congrats on the migration over to Newton's - I did so for a couple of seasons and really felt it was a huge boost to my focus on a forefoot strike. I would say that even if you "feel" you are a mid foot striker that these shoes may tell you otherwise. They really shift your strike even further forward and directly over the metatarsals due to the lugs placement. I wouldn't advise going for a run and changing shoes per se, but would rather "pepper" them into your running schedule during the week. Mostly on your shorter runs or recovery runs to start (maybe a run a week to start) and then as the soreness in you calves (this is where you will really feel it initially) dissipates on those shorter runs , then introduce them to more middle distance runs. You'll know what that right amount is initially by how your legs feel, then it is just a matter of using them for a couple runs during the week, then 3 runs and so on. Just take it slow and listen to your legs and you'll be up to running in them full time in no time
I spent some years with Newton's starting in 2009. I think one of the main reasons to consider a "getting used to" period has to do neither with one's running form, nor with the lugs, but rather with the heel to toe drop. Shoes are all over the map with that these days. Some have as much as 1.2 cm drop, others are flat. Newton's are in the range of 4 mm when you consider the lugs as the "toe". If the shoes you have been running in have a significantly higher drop than that (2-3 mm may be enough to make a difference), your feet and achilles tendon will require an adjustment period, which is a risky time for injuries such as achilles tendonitis and plantar fasciitis.
The lugs do make a little difference not in initial foot placement, but in the final push-off. There's less there at the toe, the last part of your foot leaving the ground. Nothaving something at the point inyhour stride may be a part of the injury risk as well.
My $.02, transition slow to anything that you're not used to - period. True in life as it is in sports!
My first time with vibrams (yes, extreme to the point here I know, but still relevant), I ran an easy slow 2 miles, and then could barely walk the following two weeks.
Sorry for such a long, drawn out story, but wanted to share b/c I've heard of others having the exact same PF issue when successfully running in Newtons for a few months, and then swapping out an old pair with a new pair!
Here are some vids from Newton running.
Tons of other vids. Just look for RunningForm Fridays if you want to learn about cadence, form etc...
Good luck Bob.
Same thing happened to me in the summer/fall of 2011. I stayed with the Newtons intermittantly thru Oct 2012, but have now abandoned them for Saucony Kinvaras, partly because they're cheaper, and partly because I go just as fast in the Sauconys. Which was the one and only reason I was in the Newton's to begin with - I was faster in them then other shoes. I could care less about gimmicks, marketing claims about running style, etc. The bottom lines I have for my equipment are: speed, risk of injury (or the flip side, comfort), and value (durability/price).
Reading this thread I have to ask, should I be considering a switch?
Comes down to the same considerations - speed, injury risk, cost, although $25 one way or the other is not significant digits.
How much faster did you become when you switched?
Worth the injury-risk?
This article yesterday from the NY Times may be germane to this discussion.
@ Russell - I've done several experiments centered on speed comparing diferent styles of shoes. I started out running in 1999 with Asics 20X0, which of course morphed to 21X0 models. So that was my starting point. In 2006, while tapering for an IM, I compared myself on consecutive days over the same course, same weather, wind, etc. Using those shoes vs racing flats. I don't know the exact drop difference, but it was substantial, although I was not focused on that fact, rather on the weight difference between them. I went 30-40 seconds/mile faster in the flats. So I ran the IM marathon in them, and got an IM marathon PR (this was at Hawaii, so that's saying something, given the 82F temp that day.)
Several years later, I found myself fortuitously with about 7 different pairs of running shoes, including Asics 2140s, two pairs of Newtons which differed only in the presence or absence of a heel cover, two different pairs of Saucony Fastwitch, and a pair or two of racing flats. On successive weeks, during the late summer (when the weather is pretty stable here), I did my weekly bike trainer wko, followed by a brick over the same course @ the same time (mid afternoon) from my house. I recorded my min/mi and my HR over the three miles (an outback section) after a one mile warm-up.
Remember, my theory was that weight made a difference. What I discovered was little difference between the 9.5 oz Newton racers and the 4.2 oz Mizuno Waves, and some difference between the two Newtons, despite little difference in weight. They were about 2-3 mm different in drop, though, due to that hell covering on the Gravity's. Otherwise, they are exactly the same shoe.
So that got me looking at drop, not weight, and that's how I migrated to the Kinvara's, which are as fast as the Newton's, and have the same heel/toe difference (and weigh a couple of onces less, due to no front lugs). So I train in them, and race in the Mizunos now (they wear out too quickly for everyday use).
Should YOU change? I think no one should wear boats like the Asics. But the injury risk in switching to a differnent shoe is in part dependant on your weight - I'm 67kg, so somewhat of a light weight, so less impact. Also, good running form probably makes a difference. I have no unilateral strength deficits, and the only times I've been injured (twice) in the past 15 years were when I ran with improper equipment (e.g., an impromtu soccer game with my daugher's team when I was wearing stiff-soled mt. bike shoes lead to PF)
Here's some of the data. Note epsecially mile 3, which had the least terrain changes, as well as the turn-around. The HR differences for the Gravity's I attribute to that day being warmer than the others (72 vs 61) - I was using RPE to guidemy pace not looking at my Garmin while running. It was on auto-lap. The 30-40 second difference between the racing flats and the Asics is still apparent. My conclusion was: heel/toe angle makes a big difference, weight makes some, but not much additional difference.
Racing
Shoe
Te
st
Shoe
Wt
T
Mile 1
HR
Mile 2
HR
Mile 3
HR
Mile 4
HR
Mile 5
HR
Time
Dist
HR
Asics 2100
13.2
60
9:32
115
7:57
126
8:28
127
8:34
129
9:00
119
40:40
4.68
123
Newton Gravity
10.4
72
9:01
119
7:39
132
8:02
133
8:02
138
8:30
132
40:00
4.86
132
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I switched to newtons in 2011 both to try to improve my cadence and to get away from the large heel-toe drop. I started running from scratch in sep like 1min on 1 min walk for 10 cycles, then each week lengthened the intervals until i got to 10min run x2.
As the racing season end of may for me approached I felt that the newtons i had were not the shoe i wanted to race in and I too like Al went with the Kinvara. They are my goto racing shoe. I did 2 HIMs and IMC last year training in the newtons and racing in the Kinvaras and PR'd all my runs.
This week, for example, I do my sunday/tue/sat runs in my newtons and wed treadmill in my kinvaras as I pick up the pace on TM.
I do think it's about more than just a midfoot strike (there is something about the lugs, too). But as you get used to them, you might actually find that you like the performance line more than the guidance line (which includes the All-Terrain) because the lugs are more pronounced (as Jess mentioned)
Thanks to everyone for their input - getting more out of this topic than the Armstrong thread...
@Al - great data - scientific method clearly resonates for you.
Honestly, I learn as much from your methods as your answers...
The NY Times article is relevant but not all that helpful...
“'Mostly what we’ve learned' with the new study, he said, 'is how much still needs to be learned.'”
No doubt, you see my point... That said, not the first decision I'll make based on partial data.
"no one should wear boats like the Asics"
Funny way to put it. Ok... convinced I should try something new... where to from here...
There are running shops near here that will let me test a few pair of shoes... I'll try the Newtons and the Kinvaras, and pick what I like best.
I'll run my own experiment, perhaps one day the week after OS down at the track... still 4.5 months to Patriot HIM...
Thoughts on how many weeks one should allow for adjustment before racing a half-marathon in minimal shoes?
Time to head to the gym - best!
A friend of mine is getting his PhD in PT and went to a conference recently where a speaker from Harvard's running center presented research information about barefoot running and gait retraining. Her conclusion is that barefoot running, not just using minimalist shoes, helps to minimize injury, because barefoot running substantially decreases impact force. Using a midfoot strike does decrease the impact force but not as much as barefoot running, and some people still run poorly in minimalist shoes. There's a lot more, but her ideas for reasonable footwear are those with no arch support, no midsole, and zero drop (basically just something to protect the feet against the elements and nothing more).
I started doing some training in the K-Ruuz for speed sessions, but honestly I felt it stressed my ankle muscles in new and odd ways that I didn't like. So I'm sticking with the Asics for all my training.
FWIW about 2 years ago one of the top 10 pros in Kona raced in Asics GT-21x0!!
^^^ This. I run exclusively in Newtons now and have to say that I felt it in my tendons more than anyplace else since I used to run in a flat shoe. After wearing them for short walks the first few days my legs definitely felt it, but now I don't even notice it.