November Out Season After Action / Feedback
Very solid work put in across 14 weeks of the November Outseason. Now we NOS'ers are presented with an opportunity to provide other EN'ers and RnP with feedback on our thoughts (Good and Bad) with the training plan. Take a few minutes to think about the NovOS, take a look back at your training log, and share your ideas/comments/opinions.
- If you have a problem, offer a solution if possible.
- Provide context if appropriate (plan level, 1st/2nd/3rd OS, swing shift worker, work from home, 80 hour a week at high pressure job type, you suffered an injury, took a vacation mid-OS, etc, you get the drift).
- Advice for people in or just starting the OS.
- Advice for RnP to make the OS better with the next re-write.
- I know RnP have thick skin, but don't just point out 'the bad'. There has to be some goodness in the OS as well.
- NovOS lurkers welcome here. Even if you were not active in the weekly threads, please provide any input you may have.
I had a blast this OS and hope we meet somewhere down the road this year! Keep after it.
Comments
If I speak for myself, I thought the first half of the OS went great, the rides and runs were definitely challenging but very doable. I could feel how the training worked, intervals felt somewhat easier as the NOS progressed as I was getting stronger. Mid OS testing for both run and bike were great, bike FTP up 10% and vdot up 4 which was a 5km PR.
The problem for me became the second half of the OS, where there was no time to adapt to the new FTP. Immediately all FTP training workouts were >40 mins every single time, which I couldn't complete in the beginning. It became mentally more challenging - it was physically very hard but unlike the first half of the OS I couldn't really feel any progress, I think there was too much residual fatigue all the time. Missed a couple training sessions because of travel and sickness but in general, there didn't seem enough opportunity to recover or let's say, whereas in the first half of the OS the balance of 'work' vs 'recovery' was perfect it seemed off in the second half.
The final week needs reorganizing because it is set up to test on tired legs. Currently there is a training with FTP intervals on Tuesday, run on Wednesday, then test on Thursday but other tests have always been done after a rest day. Then after the test, one is supposed to do a bike ride that includes 36 minutes at the NEW FTP (int. plan) the day before the run test, which also is much harder than doing the run test after a recovery day.
Final thing I see needs to be cleared up is the confusion around the final vdot test. Week 13 I believe has some training in it with intervals at 5k pace to prepare for the test... but then the test talks about doing a 10k or a half marathon? It's a change in protocol, which will influence the result (many including me have never done a 10k test or race). The whole point about testing and measuring progress should be using identical methods. (FYI I'm a scientist so I have rather strong feelings about this :-D)
Recommendations going forward:
- No change in first half of OS
- Second half of the OS to allow a more gradual buildup instead of AND increasing interval duration AND increasing intensity
- Restructure final test week. Maybe do FTP test on Tuesday and vdot on Saturday - they just need to come after a rest day.
- Standardize the vdot test. Use one protocol consistently.
@ Roy - thanks for starting this thread up!
@ Ben - you pretty much took the words right out of my mouth!
My background: This was my first OS. I did the intermediate plan, which I feel was the right choice for me. My life is pretty calm, so I didn't have to do a whole lot of rejiggering of workouts. In fact, I believe I was able to do every single workout, and looking back, there are probably only less than a handful that I'd like to have back due to poor performance. I didn't do any hacking (maybe 5-6 swims during the entire OS just to loosen up a bit; no weight-lifting or other strength training; no other extracurriculars), and got plenty of rest/sleep throughout. That being said...
* The vets consistently warned that OS is hard and at some point the work will catch up with you. For me, the 'tipping point' came after the week 8 tests. Up until then, the work increases had been gradual and manageable, but after that, it was a super-steep incline. However, unlike for Ben, it wasn't the FTPs that got to me, it was the VO2/interval work on the run. Adapting to the new power/pace numbers combined with the new VO2s really did a number on me, and for weeks I felt like I was barely hanging on.
* Week 14. This is graduation week, so I was surprised to see that there was no real 'taper' prior to/between the tests. The workout that really got to me was the Saturday bike w/ the new FTPs. It set me back physically and mentally, and I believe it contributed to me not having being able to execute the run test as I hoped. Given that this is the final week and is supposed to set us up for whatever we do next, I believe that this week should be rewritten so as to give us a better chance to be 'successful' and finish on a high note.
* Nutrition: If there was one thing that I didn't execute well enough during the OS, it was my nutrition. I don't mean the during the workout nutrition, but the everyday chow. Coming from a long hours/low intensity background, I didn't fully realize how the different training style would demand that I fuel differently, and I believe that that made these past few weeks harder than they needed to be. I realize that there's no one size fits all nutrition template, but some more guidance/advice for newbs would have been helpful.
* Other stuff: I was pretty surprised to read about the other stuff (swimming/skiing/hiking/weights...) people incorporated into the OS. I had zERO energy for anything other than the workouts. I tried to do some regular core exercises along with the workouts, but abandoned that after the first two weeks, becuase I was too beat. Next year, I'm going to try to build that more into my off-season/preseason so I can shift to just maintenance mode.
* The Power of the People: R&P and EN vets consistently emphasize the power of the people, and I couldn't agree more. I don't know if I would have executed the OS as well as I did without my NOS Team and our daily postings. It was super awesome, and led to me having - at the end of the day - a successful first OS with EN. Lots of progress, lots of learning, and already lots of ideas for next year!
Random positive thoughts:
Possible areas for improvement:
x2 on every point Ben made. As I read his post I was thinking, "Wow, that's what I wanted to say only he said it better".
This was my 3rd OS in the haus. The first (Int plan 20 wk) went very well and I had a great season ending with IMLP. Second OS (Int plan 20 wk) started good but I boogered it half way thru by doing too much. I never really finished the full 20 weeks, and came out of the OS feeling stronger but same FTP. Still, I had a fun season with 2 70.3's (Mooseman & Timberman) as 2 race weekends .
This OS the beginning was great. Liked the FTP-VO2-FTP sandwich and the speed of the build. My mistake was thinking I could handle the added fatigue of the Adv plan. I had initially started on the Int plan then switched to the Adv on week 4. Big mistake as I look back. By the mid-OS testing the signs were already there. I had grandiose delusions of how big a bump I 'deserved' but that caused me to fail the VO2-FTP test twice in the same week. Instead I SWAGed my FTP bump up 4% because I felt I earned it. Still reluctant to accept the truth, I should have kept my startup VO2 and FTP numbers and re-set back to the Intermediate plan.
From early Jan (week 9ish) on it was beginning to get harder and harder to make all the bike sessions, or to do well on the ones I did get. Again, all signs of deep fatigue and I never listened. I kept telling myself I could do this.... and kept hammering my head into the brick wall. You think that as a 3 time OSer I would know better..... In the end everything, including some of the running was a struggle.
Most of my focus above was about the bike which is my weaker sport. The running portion I thought was great. Like the hard intervals the most. Yasso 800's have long been a staple of mine. Run-2, I always did as a brick for convenience and rarely trimmed them as suggested for brick runs. Some of the MP out - HMP back runs were a bit tougher to manage. Sometimes I never got the the HMP part..... these ended up being MP runs - which I thought worked better for me. Hard enough to matter, but not so tough that they interfere with the next workout.
Ben's point on the build, especially after the mid OS test is killer. Weeks 2-7 build from 59' FTP to 75' FTP (adv plan). Post test weeks 9-13 start at 80' FTP and skyrocket to 105' FTP, all on the new higher FTP. I think more mortals would survive and everyone would be better served if the post mid-OS test reset back to 60' FTP and built up to maybe 90' FTP, or built faster to get up over 100'.
Testing should be consistent. Start, mid, ending. For the many who are interested in capping the OS with a 10K or half marathon, that could be an option that individuals can make. Or can be something for Transition as a fun focus event. Apples to apples for start and end.
All-in-all, RnP put some awesome training plans together. After 3+ years I'm still here because between the outstanding plans, the wealth of knowledge in the Wiki, and the team camaraderie of the OS as a group.
1. I didn't know this was the first time for the captains. If so, that is a great way to do it and they did a great job, thank you very much gentlemen.
2. The overall group feel (can't think of a better or more technical term) is something I will miss moving out of the outseason and is clearly something worth the price. It kept me going, and as a newbie, I didn't really think I had an option to not play along (though I guess I always knew that I did).
Now to the more technical parts of the plan itself:
1. To echo what many had said already, after the second test, I know I felt very close to having the wheels come off a few times even with amping up the rest (I was going to bed before my seven year old daughter some nights). I was not adding in anything extra that should have been causing this downstream impact other than the work I was told to do. I seemed to really struggle with the bike more than the run, but I am weaker on the bike than on the run, so that would seem to follow.
2. The structure of the last week needs some work, I will just leave it at that.
3. A video discussing nutrition would be a good thing I think, at least from a newbie perspective to echo Kate's comment as it was something I struggled with as well.
All in all, I was extremely impressed with the thought and effort put in by RnP in how to torture me so that I would become a stronger, faster me. The power of the people here is the worst kept secret (as it is one of the key advertised selling points) and was worth its weight in gold to me during this period and I am sure will be going forward. Everything can use some tweaks, these were just the ones that I thought of when I reflected on the last 14 weeks. To all of you, it has been (and will continue to be) a pleasure.
To add what Scott et al have said: I also did not know that this was the first OS w/ Captains. Definitely a huge plus. Roy and Gordon did a great job of leading this disparate group of athletes through the OS and forming a team in tihe process. They were instrumental in building and sustaining real Team NOS mojo and have set the bar very high for future OS Captains!
I liked Al’s lay out, so here are my comments in the same format.
Random positive thoughts:
? OS Captains – excellent. I was in the Oct OS last year and it was hard figuring out the protocol for starting a thread since everyone had a different idea and no one was in charge. This is great and appealed to my “Military” background. Roy and Gordon did fantastic and I appreciate their work.
? Two major OS starts – I think this ensured that the coaches were not spread too thin and that we had an ample amount of athletes in each OS – the mojo doesn’t work if only 3-5 athletes are posting on a regular basis.
? Advanced Program - I missed only a few workouts up to the last week. Since biking is my strong point, I did not mind the added work compared to the last two Oss. I will state that the 2 X 20’ plus 15’ at Z4 in week 13 was the hardest biking AND it had a brick run after. I never thought I could build up to that. Awesome!
? Podcasts – great, keep the ones that are there.
? Fun Stuff – during the holiday’s it was cool to see threads that were not sport related, i.e., Favorite Christmas Movies. Since I spend so much of my time with EN stuff – it is cool to see a social aspect.
Possible areas for improvement:
? I agree the last week of the plan need altering. Each test should be preceded by a mandatory rest day.
? Final Run Test – I knew what I was going to do since the guidance was to end up on a 10K or a Half marathon. But, I just did whatever the workout called for and never thought about putting in any extra mileage with respect to the final test. A short note at the bottom on every weekend run workout that mentions, “put in some extra mileage if your final test is over a 5K, e.g., ….” Would have been a great addition.
? Podcasts – add one or two that discuss the sport specific blocks that come next. Maybe even one for the Get Faster program.
I too felt that some FTP time modifications could be done between the first and second half. My mid-OS FTP test netted only 4W, so the new intervals starting after the mid-OS tests were actually perfect for my own progression. However, I was imagining how they would be for those who saw gains of 10W or more - and how it must have been just that much more difficult. So, I would say that the time @ FTP in the 2nd half is fine if the 1st half saw little gain, but might be a tad much for those who saw 10W or more of an FTP boost. Not sure how that would translate to a plan without having an if-then fork - and once you start down that road, things can get crazy.
On the heels of that last comment, I saw the biggest bike gains from the 2nd half - jumping 19W. I think about half was due to a refit on my bike I got at the end of December, but I also think that the larger doses of time @ FTP played a huge part. So, from a pure performance standpoint, I'd say the best results would come from the entire OS being comprised of 15-20 minute segments @ FTP. However, I also realize that would dramatically increase the mental toll as well - so it is a balancing act. I was using the advanced plan, so there wasn't much else I could do without going beyond what the plan had written out, and I didn't want to do that.
SLEEP! I now appreciate its value. You may remember that in week 11 or so, I posted saying I was glad the OS was only 14 weeks long. I had been in a rut for a few days, and looking back, sleep quality was compromised. The next day I skipped my normal Monday Yoga, and went to bed early. Tuesday morning I woke refreshed and was able to carry that motivation through to the end. I was shocked at how much a difference that mental break and physical recuperation made.
FTP segment variation - A few times I toyed with doing the FTP segments as over unders - 1' @ 95%, 1' @ 105%, etc. I found it really broke up the monotony of the 16'+ segments, which, from a mental standpoint over the course of an OS, can be a major factor. Less monotony = more entertaining workout = more excitement for the next workout and less chance of getting into the 'aww man another FTP workout? I'm tired of these!'. Some may disagree with the idea of over/unders, but I found them helpful.
Run:
I agree with prior sentiments that a specific distance should be chosen BEFORE the OS starts to determine VDOT. In my case, I did a half marathon mid-October that my VDOT was based on. It's been a week since the OS ended, and I still haven't done a final VDOT test - I'm waiting until Feb 24th for a follow up half marathon.
I admit - I bailed on all but one of the Tuesday runs. For me, the mental overhead of two brick workouts per week was not worth it. So, I skipped the Tuesday ones, since I work out at night and they'd inherently take place in the cold and in the dark, and likely after having gotten sweaty from the bike workout. The only Tuesday run I did was christmas week, since I was on vacation from work anyway. So IMO, those Tuesday runs are disposable.
Summary:
All in all, I think the OS was put together very well. I tweaked a few things here and there, but for the most part it was personal preference type stuff. I certainly appreciated the relatively low time investment, and the degree of focus for each workout. I especially liked that I could see SOME sort of improvement week over week - maybe it was extending an FTP interval, maybe it was that the FTP interval felt slightly easier, maybe it was that my form felt better during a TP run (which to me is an indication that I've improved beyond just simply 'muscling' through a faster pace). So any suggestions or critiques are really, in the grand scheme of things, pretty minor - because, simply put, the OS did was it was supposed to do - which was make me faster/stronger than I was when I started!
My top priority was to spend as much time as possible with the wife and kid. I did all workouts early before they woke up, late after the went to sleep or during the day before they got home from work and daycare. This would not have been possible without their guidance.
The importance of rest was key. Typical week for me was Monday rest, Tuesday early wko, Wednesday afternoon wko, Thursday night wko, Friday rest, Saturday afternoon wko (during naptime) and Sunday night wko. 24 hours of rest between wko's is brilliant and I felt great.
Accumulating SAU's is the best advice ever. My wife is much happier with me training the EN way.
Dialing in my nutrition was an epiphany. Thank you for partnering with Infinit. For me, this worked flawlessly. I use the go far blend for the bike and speed blend for running. Taste great, no rot gut, felt like I could go all day long. This will pay huge dividends come race day. Also, thank you for partnering with Clean Bottle. Love them!
The VO2 max and FTP bike sessions were awesome! I saw some killer gains on the bike.
Really liked the run sessions, too. Got a nice little bump at the end.
Was initially freaked out by no swimming, but now I see the light.
I really liked the last week including the tests. For example, bike test, rest day, bike FTP then run test (10k vs 5k) was super cool. I understand what some folks are saying, but we're training for an ironman! Aren't we supposed to push hard at the end and finish strong? WWHBD? (What would Honey Badger do?)
But of course the best part of EN is the dashboard. I love this team and our coaches! I can't wait to race with you guys one day! BOOM!