VDot
I just completed the NOV OS advanced program. I tested my vdot last monday with a 5K ( same course I have tested on for entire os) My VDot was 42. I ran a 1/2 marathon on Sunday and my vdot was 44 ( according to the Jack Daniels calculator). Which number should I use for my current paces?
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If it were me I would train using the 44.
Always use your higher vDot...Always!....frankly the lower vDot for your test just means you don't test well...for whatever reason your form may deteriorate or you go out to fast....but someone who sees a higher vDot for longer race really implies your true vDot is even higher.....it simply means you haven't truly tested all out at 5k (not implying you didn't try to run all out...or percieved you did...but something other than all-out was the result)
BTW what where your times/paces...because a 2 point vDot difference between 5k and HM is big....and sound odd to me.
Back in September, when I finished the GF program, my VDOT tested exactly the same as it was when I started in beg of August - 47. However, I could tell I had improved in those 8 weeks because TP runs were significantly easier. Then, 2 weeks after that solo test (mid-October), I did a HM and my resultant VDOT was 51 - a 4 point difference! I will say I never pushed myself like I did in that HM - I felt like I had my foot on the gas the entire time. I did the NOS at a VDOT of 51 and came out the other side fine (still waiting for a post-OS test, which is a HM next weekend).
I think it's decently common to test higher at longer distances. As Joe said - just means that for whatever reason, the shorter distance just isn't a good test. IMO, I think a solo 5k 'test' is nothing like an actual race event - I find I just can't put the pedal to the metal in a solo run like I can during a race.
Use the VDOT that is most race-like for race planning.
Use the faster VDOT for training IF AND ONLY IF you can hit the paces and not put yourself in a hole for the next day. Otherwise, just realize that you're better at long distances than you are at shorter ones...statistically.
I agree 100% with this - personally, I never try to do a 5K by myself - I just can't muster the mojo to work that hard out of sight of other humans.
As to whether a 5K VDOT < 21 K VDOT implies a poor 5k Test - I'm not so sure about that. So VERY good runners here @ EN have proven they have a better VDOT at HM than @ 5K, and knowing them, I'm positive they left nothing in the tank when they ran the 5K.
Concerning how to use numbers that are @ variance - as others have said, use the number from the closest race distance (eg, HM VDOT for IM) for racing, use the number that works (as defined by Prof. Jenks) for training purposes.
No idea if its the right way to do it, but its a set of challenging but manageable paces for me.
JL - no argument about the science or definitions. On a practical basis, though, the value for us of the "VDOT" derived from a 5K race is not is identifying one's true lactate threshold, but as a tool to help us adjust our training paces.
And one thing I hope we are *not* doing by having this discussion is make some people feel guilty or inadequate that they are not putting out enough effort, or lack mental focus or something when they are doing the running VDOT test. Working at that level of sustained effort is a learned skill, like driving a car fast around corners ... it's scary, and not necessarily something all people want to learn how to do. And that's OK. The VDOT from the less than perfect test is nonetheless a useful tool in moving one along that learning process of how to go faster.
As to whether someone can have a 5K "VDOT" which is lower than his HM "VDOT" , well that's probably something we'll never truly know. We'd have to take, say, 5'5", 120# Ethiopian and look at his half marathon VDOT (which would be a true test, running all out for about an hour), and then have him train for a year for 5Ks, and see what his VDOT is... and repeat that for hundreds of people of various genetic dispositions vis-avis fast vs slow twitch, etc. Then we might really know if the 20 minute test is the best predictor of lactate threshold for all people.
I think of the example of Matt Ancona, an ENer who several years ago was top overall amateur in a Chicago HM @ something like 1:15. After doing the EN 20 week OS, his 5K VDOT was about 2 points lower than his best HM-derived VDOT. No slacking on either the racing (he knows how to race, having also won his AG in two IMs) or the training, yet still there was that discrepancy.
@ Al...no arguments at all...and really not trying to imply or make some feel they are not working hard enough...LOL...no such thing in this Haus!....
My only point is that if I had two data points for vDot...one higher & one lower...I would work with the higher one....as I believe that is the one that will help you push your ceiling higher in the long run......
...that said...if the lower one is the one that from a practical point allows you to really get the work done...then I would not argue with that...especially if it allows you to get "all" of the work (SBR) without driving yourself into fatigue or injury....
and the decision as to which is appropriate to use is up to each of us as an individual in the grand experiment of 1...
...I certainly hope noone misinterpreted my discussion as anything other than a point-counterpoint consideration and discusion.
Using myself as an example again (cuz thats all I have to go on
So, basically, long winded way of saying that if you go with the higher number, there's nothing wrong with backing off a tad until your body gets just a bit more used to it. It's not pass/fail - if the effort is there, you'll reap the rewards.