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Roadie race pace info

cgres123cgres123
in General Training Discussions

I'm looking to do a race next month. The Hell of Hunterdon 79 miles of road and gravel. I'm using my road bike. I just put on 25mm tires and plan on using 100psi for more contact tire patch area.

I never did a bike only race. so I'm thinking like this, HIM @ 80% an IM @ 70% so a bike only race hold 85% to see how that feels and adjust the last 25 miles accordingly.My bike fitness at this point is JOS stuff with up to a 2 hour ride on Saturday. I will bump that long ride up to 2h 30-45 min tops.

Anyone have any input into my idea?

Comments

  • benvanmarckebenvanmarcke
    Just googled it, seems like it is just a short century, no? In that case I'd try to find a fast pack and ride in that. In which case, power will be determined by the pace of the group.
  • ezellrhezellrh
    x2 on Ben. Find a group of fast guys and sit in the draft. Mentally and physically much much easier.
  • cgres123cgres123
    Ya know you 2 made sooooo much sense. I train with roadies. I just never raced with them and have a no drafting triathlete mind..... ha ha ... what was I thinking.
  • RumpoleRumpole
    You might want to do a little anaerobic capacity work. If it's a race, FTP will keep you with the group but the ability to surge over FTP, recover and repeat will be important if you want to keep from getting dropped. Over/unders (90-95% FTP 2 min; 105-110 FTP 2 min) will help with this, as will 2 min on, 2 min off. The ON might be at 90 percent of your best recent 2 min power. You can also do 1 min on (all out) adn then rest five minutes. THis is pretty much the time crunched protocol, which you can find on trainer road. Those workouts are brutal. There are also suggested workouts at the back of the Coggan/Allen book. You want, I think, the ones labeled AC (anaerobic capacity).

    On the other hand, dunno how "fast" fast is; if they're all at 3.2 w/kg @ FTP and you're at 4.1, you could just ride away from 'em. A five-hour century is fast; and folks do that all the time when in aero.
  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak

    David,

    First off I've never done a bike only race so take my comments for what they are worth.  Enjoy the experience.  I might suggest that you don't just plan on riding in the back of the pack but make sure you plan to take a turn at the front.  If you are fried after 50 miles just hang.  Maybe you will find a group that is big enough or is happy to just let you hang in there then by all means sit in.

    As for the 85% probably a decent idea but it will be a hard ride if you are riding by yourself given the Sunday rides of IM plans are ABP 3 hour rides after a 4 hour Saturday ride.  If you average 20MPH this HoH will be just under 4 hour ride.

    If you are taking a turn at the front you will be going over that number and then below that number sitting in unless you pick a really strong group relative to yourself.    Surges will also be a consideration and how you can recover.  That VO2 work you have been doing in the OS will help but probably not long enough in length should you have to go with a small group or try to bridge up.  You will have to decide if its worth the effort or if you sit up and coordinate with those that are left.

     Gordon

    Gordon

  • John WithrowJohn Withrow
    DM, the bad news is that you will not be racing in the front group, nor will I... Coach P chased the front group for more than 1.5 hrs to catch up to them after being caught in the wrong part of the first group that split and he bridged the gap... You and I are mortals after all...

    The 'normal people' group will break apart within the first 3 miles. But the good news is that there are tons of little groups that form and break apart all the time. The 15-20 dirt and/or gravel road sections tend to make things 'interesting' for lack of a better word. It rewards those with good bike handling skills. Also the roadies will 'dilly dally' for a while then hammer it up the hills then coast and dilly dally again. It's the opposite of an EN approved triathlon bike execution... But this is not a triathlon... So basically, don't look at your power, call it an ABP ride except when you're dilly dallying with whoever you happen to be around. Oh yeah, and have a blast. It is a great 'race', but there are not timing chips and not really even a finish line. It's a ton of fun though and most yrs it rains and is freezing cold and muddy, a true spring classic!
  • manninj1manninj1

    DM-I'm primarily a road racer that dabbles in triathlon.  It looks like they don't have USAC categories so if it is one open group it will be nearly impossible to stick with the leaders who could be pros or cat 2 riders.  That said, if you are feeling strong, get as far to the front as possible and find a group that you can work with.  Resist the urge to ride on the front of your group. . .roadies are lazy by nature and will let you do all of the work for as long as you want and then drop you on the last big climb/sprint.

    I do recommend going to the front for dirt sections, especially if you are a bigger rider.  When you hit the dirt sections, water bottles will be flying, lighter riders will be getting bounced all over, and chaos typically ensues.  If you can get to the front and push the pace in these sections you can start to cull the weaker riders from your group.

    Don't worry about your power numbers. . .depending on how rough the roads are you won't be able to read it anyway.  It's more important to keep checking in with your body, and pay attention to the course and the riders around you.  You need to make sure you're ready to respond to attacks, and ensure you don't get gapped (because you're behind a weaker rider) and lose the draft.  

    I absolutely love these early season "classics" style raises.  They are typically epic and an absolute blast.  Have fun!

     

  • cgres123cgres123
    Thx All good advice.
  • John WithrowJohn Withrow
    Good advice Joe. And thanks for starting this thread DM. I finally got on my Road Bike for the first time this weekend. Getting nervous now! But in a good way. Gonna be a fun day for sure!
  • cgres123cgres123
    John you doing the hell of hunterdon too ?
  • John WithrowJohn Withrow
    Yup, I'm doing it. I did it last yr and started with the 2nd group and had a blast. I lost the other 5 EN guys within the first 10 mins and basically road with a bunch of different groups of people all day, basically whoever I randomly happened to be around. I was hoping to start with the "A" group this yr as a good test for Battenkill to see how long I could hang with them and pretend to be a roadie... Last yr I did stupid things like chasing down big groups, then blowing right past them because they were taking their time and chatting. I would then pass the whole group and pull away off the front, and go looking for the next group. Then 15 mins later the big group would blow by me because I was alone. So bottom line, I'm gonna try to slay myself there this yr and try to actually learn a few things in the process...
  • John WithrowJohn Withrow
    There's a chance Attila Matyas and Pete Joachim might also be doing it... Might want to send a shout out to those guys to see...
  • cgres123cgres123
    kool we will have peeps. I went out over the weekend and boy it and I was ugly after 35 miles .... not good
  • Keith WickKeith Wick
    I would somewhat advise looking at your power numbers depending on how things were. In doing the Harpoon Brewery to Brewery ride one year I was able to get into a nicely paced group, but then this one guy went to the front and would just CRUSH things for a good 5 minutes, then he'd sit on the back for 3 minutes before going to the front again. Guys in the line were wonder what the f$*% as the speed on a flat would jump almost 2 mph when he went. I hung for about an hour then backed off to wait for the next group. About two hours later I was fried and still had a while to go....I'd remember that if it seems TO HOT in the beginning, then you may need to find a different group or the last half will truly suck.
  • Coach RichCoach Rich
    Key is to do zero work until the last third of the ride. Stay near the front for safety and minimize the accordion effect reasons, but don't get closer than about 3rd or 4th wheel.
  • Joseph LombardiJoseph Lombardi

    Call me a weenie...but I think this is a tough ride....you're basically climbing all day...with a few flats in between....last year it was 40's cold & wet...would be good to read Coach P's ride reivew....

    http://members.endurancenation.us/F...fault.aspx

    I certainly am not a strong rider....and I way underdressed and ended up not being able to feel my feet or hands...(very difficult to break & shift LOL) ...but at 80miles...me thinks you will feel like you rode 100....

    The gravel sections really took a toll on alot of riders....Flats...and if your not used to riding downhill on the gravel....it really tenses your shoulders & neck...alot bounce and movement...= tension.

    I am still undecided as to whether to ride or not..would like to go back and get revenge...but also still looking at whether it is the optimum use of my training time given my IMTX plan.........we'll see....

    I would concurr that it is a fun ride...just be prepared.....

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