Running Experiment for Triathletes

new2703

This is my n=1 experiment.  Started the Os in November, approx 2 weeks after everybody else. because I was stupid enough to run a late season marathon.  For the first four weeks of the Os running was slow, kept hr < 130 beats and RPe on the low side.  This was mainly because heart, lungs and body were not ready to run hard.  This meant more time to work harder on swimming and biking (FTP went from 253 to 285).  During this time also read Daniels book and the run less run faster book.  For me the take home message was running needs to include some interval/repetition work, tempo (FTP) work and some distance work.  So for the remainder of the Os and for the GF plan incorporated these ideas into my runs

1.  Interval work/ repetition work at Z5 or slightly faster.  Believe this teaches our bodies to run faster and with better form.

2.  Tempo run.  Would do the same FTP work that was on the plan with one exception.  I would make them continuous.  I believe this teaches your body to run at a hard level for a sustained period of time.

3,  Long run at MP plus some additional time which varies by run/week

eliminated all other runs.  Felt recovery was better served not running instead of running slow.  Now that I'm in the race prep phase, I'm continuing to apply the same concepts but do either the interval run or the tempo run after the bike (if time permits) as a brick workout.  By doing this it is essentially allowing me one complete day off per week plus one day where i'm just swimming.  Legs feel good and are not as tight all the time.

How this will help during my first IM remains to be seen.

 

cgres123

Hey John nice hack idea so what does you week look like on paper exactly?

new2703

@David.
Monday: swim / maybe a vo2 bike
Tuesday: swim/ interval or tempo run
Wednesday: FTP bike plus
Thursday: long run
Friday: off
Saturday: long bike
Sunday: abp bike/ tempo or interval run

Swanie

John- your week is very similar to mine except during the Race Prep phase I swim on Wed instead of Tues. All other WO's are the identical. I am also a student of the Run Less Run Faster school. Three runs per week: Long @ z2-3, Tempo 5-8 miles @ Z3-4, and a Z5 workout (usually at the track total distance is 5 miles). It's gotten me 3 Boston Q's and sub 11 hr Ironman.

rmiller

During the OS, I think there were four prescribed runs:
Sunday - some TP with remaining Z3 (essentially the long run)
Tuesday - brick; strides, Z1
Wednesday - TP or IP, depending on phase of the OS
Saturday - seemed to be a progression/tempo type run starting @ MP and going to HMP.

In my experience, the Saturday run was very similar to your tempo run. While not @ Z4 pace, starting @ MP and progressing to HMP definitely kept up the intensity and HR of a Z4 workout during the HMP portion.

I bailed on virtually every Tuesday run because doing a brick run at night, in the cold, was not appealing. So for the sake of mental head space, and considering it was just strides and some Z1 work, I considered it pretty expendable. So I only ended up running 3x per week - and those runs are very similar to the runs in the RLRF or Daniels plan, and what you describe.

Robert Sabo

I have been doing the Tuesday strides at night and the FTP bike in the AM and I find that the short run with strides help stretch me out and has me less stiff for Weds AM run.

MattAaronson

I do the OS runs as prescribed except I run all the OS bricks (i.e. Tuesday and Saturday) as short 30' runs at tempo pace, not z1. I agree the z1 stuff is not good ROI unless you are building really serious volume, i.e. a program that involves serious "base miles".

lenahan10

Agree with Steve - I strictly a marathoner for 10 yrs before starting triathlons. After 10 yrs hit my PR when I finally realized less is more and as long as I had one long run, one tempo run and one speed wko/week this formula worked.

new2703

Glad to hear people have been doing well with this type of approach. I really feel like this has helped my running. Legs are less tired and each run feels good

Joseph Lombardi

I would only add some thought...as I am a proponent of Hansen and Daniels running formulas....which are fully simpatico with the EN return on investment approach...and so agree 100% with your experiment/approach.

My additional commentary would be that I think this is fine for the  OS...but as you get into OS and especially if you are going straight from OS into race prep (ie. without a Get Faster Phase)...there is a need for frequency/volume that really adds a component of durability....and so the additional running volume can be good. (assuming it doesn't detract from the quality sessions)

So my N=1 was kinda doing what you are doing and really not worrying about the other weekly runs for most of last years IMLou prep....this year I'm experimenting to see what  being more diligent/serious with the additional volume/frequency at easy paces adds (with strides or hills thrown in)....so far I like the way I feel..we'll see how it pays off/returns on the investment at IMTX...

 

new2703

@Joe. Started the volume build for the long run towards the end of the OS and into the GF plan. Wanted to slowly build so that at about 16 weeks I would be ready to start hitting 15 miles and slowly building each week up to 20 miles max. Now that I've hit that point the only thing that will start to change is the intensity of those runs.

new2703

This is kind of interesting received an email about a post from D Tallo but post is nowhere to be found. Anyways. Thanks everybody for the responses. @Dave. Thanks for the repsonse and input about pros and cons of current plan and also ideas on implementation. I have about two more weeks of the current plan at which point I will probably switch to the straight EN formula for the final 8 weeks of the IM plan. I do have to say that my legs have responded nicely to the three days per week run plan but I also feel it is important to switch things up every 6-8 weeks

Dave Tallo

I deleted my post - after I reread your OP, it occured to me that "GF" means "get faster," and not "Great Floridian." But some of the same points apply!

Al Truscott

As a Johnny come Lately to running, I've noticed a continuing chasm between two philosophies: run every day, even if just for a little bit vs run 3, maybe 4 times a week, with a purposeful workout each time, no junk miles. I even notice this as "experts" try to advise seniors - "Run fewer miles/session more frequently" vs "run every other day", both touted as ways to prevent injury.

Myself, I evolved quickly to the latter formula, as described in the OP. Mostly because I don't really like to run (despite being pretty good at it), and partly just to make time for swimming and biking, and it just "felt" right to get the rest between workouts. That's one of the reasons I started and stayed with EN, because the running philosophy (ROI vs volume) meshed with my thinking and practice.

So this week is typical: Monday a 7.5 mile/60 minute track workout 6  0.5 mi, skipped a planned Wed run of 30 minutes in favor of some stretching and body work, today 12.6 mi/105 minutes with 21 minutes of HM, and 20 minutes of MP work, then a 45 minute progressive/tempo brick Fri or Sat, and MAYBE a 30 minute jog on the other day, with strides in the middle. 30 miles a week is plenty for me, I average 22/week over the course of a year, and do just fine in triathlons, but I know that would not work for "real" running, like marathon training.