However, as a Certified Internet Run Form Analysisizer (tm), I see:
-the hands crossed in front of the chest / higher hands / glass tutu thing will be drilled out by concentrating on pulling elbows back instead of swinging arms back-forth.
-drill the elbow angle with 'holding the pebble in the elbow' practice - it normally takes me about 1-2 run sessions worth, and then I'm good for the year
-I agree that you are leaving money on the table with the bowed upper body - but in your case, it's probably exaggerated because there isn't any bend from the waist. Which is good. ToddTrifit's early analyses of Rinny and Crowie called this something like a "power curve," which ain't a thing. you might be able to obviate this uprightness by resuming 5 or so 'falling forward' repeats drills at the beginning of each run, as well as stopping mid-run at about 10-15 mins during some of the easy / EP / LRP workouts to practice this motion 3-4 times. When I do this - and I have to reinforce it every 8 weeks or so - the main thing i'm keeping in mind in those is falling from the chest AND pelvis, and leaning into it like a boxer. [edit - your year-to-year run pics from Kona don't show the same bow, so it's obviously not a long-standing form fault)
-I don't see any 'braking' going on in the lower body ... just nice, forward movement.
-looks like a rough neighborhood to run in.
-Thanks for putting it out there. And for going the extra mile (no pun intended) to film that outdoors and in a non-tradmill setting.
I think you might have created a new "critique my bike fit" -type craze.
Great Video Coach! Thanks for sharing. I have nothing much to add other than you're the fastest fat guy I have seen run in a long time... It was really obvious on the video that you were not "braking" with your foot strike, only the continuation of nice forward momentum. And I could also see your hands crossing your center line each stride, do you think that even slows you down though?
Coach P, I'll buy you a beer the next time I see you if you would be willing to do a "critique my run" analysis for me. You could even drop it in here to show everybody the difference between a good runner (you) and a bad runner (me), as you already have the video...
I dunno...I guess I have a very simplistic view of this video. If I were out running and crossed paths with ya (assuming I didn't know ya and you weren't wearing EN gear), I'd think I came across a good runner in his off season.
Here's what I mean...based on what I can see on how comfortable you look in your stride (the video for me was hella choppy but I think I could still see plenty), and based on what I know you look like in race condition...well, ya look like a runner in his offseason. Nothing more! I believe everything you picked apart will self-correct over the course of the next couple of months. Just my opinion, though.
Oh yeah, and I'm a big believer in letting your body find it's natural groove. Any fanatic of Track & Field or distance running has seen some pretty obscure form from some of the world's fastest humans!!!
I know nothing about running, but that never stopped me before ...
First, absolutely your shoulders look a bit far back (upright), but then you are "sprinting" (5:48 you said). Look at Michael Johnson, Olympic 200/400 champ, his form was remarkably upright. Best not tinker with that mentally until you look at what's happening when you're @ a 7:00/mi pace.
Second, arm swing. Ignore it, IMO. I've found that when trying to teach people to ski, where arm position is also an issue, asking someone to focus on where their hands or arms are is a recipe for confusion and disruption. Remember why the arms are doing what they are doing (in both skiing and running). They are trying to keep your Center of Gravity perfectly balanced while you are weighting and unweighting on alternate legs. Like the tail of a cheetah, they are simply providing stability. The idea is to NOT think about them, and let them do their work. Trying to force them into an idealized motion will probably lead to disruption of the more important activity going on from hips down. Think T Rex - Tiny Little Arms.
Next, rotation of arms vs straight forward and back. Again, your arms are along for the ride, not driving the train. Your body is rotating - very easily seen in the SloMo. The arms are counterbalancing that rotation, and so should have some arc to them to do that job, as well as going forward and back to help counterbalance what the lower limbs are doing in a more forward and back vector.
If you MUST think about your arms, pay attention first to your hands - are they in a fist, clenched, or are they loosely held with a gentle "OK" sign. No tension in the hands = less likely you'll overuse the arms they're attached to. Quiet, not driving, simply moving as the stronger elements - core, hips, leg - dictate.
Finally, where SHOULD your focus be, if not on the hands/arms and posture? Pay most attention to what's happening to your COG (center of gravity, somewhere below your navel). Try to get a feeling of eye of the hurricane calm there - it's supposed to be moving forward with minimum up and down or side-to-side while your hips, legs and body doing their thing trying to drive it forward. Get that center calm, with the least unnecessary motion, and the rest of your body parts will fall into place.
Anything I saw, you either are aware of yourself based on what you said in the video, or Dave above mentioned it (arms moving across your chest, upper body stance and practicing lean forward starts, etc). I know you are a hands-high person in your running style, but to me that more-often-then-not makes someone look tense, and might be part of why the shoulders also look tense. Do you know the heel-toe drop on your shoes? They look like they are on the thicker side - something like 12-13mm or so, and for that much of a difference, you have a real nice mid-foot strike. You also have barely any dorsiflexion, which is good (something I know I need to work on). I know when I use shoes with that much drop, I am more prone to heel striking.
My observations are: 1. I have quad envy, Those are some serious tree trunks, do you get your pants custom made 2. Observing your run form at a slower pace might show some differences where you could get some insites. I would guess, at a slower pace your upper body would lossen up and the rotation would lessen. 3. Your running form is as expected i.e. very good.
* My hood is fancy...that is million dollar point around here. No, I do not live there but take immense pleasure in running by them all in spandex. * I am the fastest fat man you know. Amen to that. Skinny peeps beware my fat butt at the end of any of your races. * I do need to work on core strength...that "bowing" is what I do when I lack support in the midsection. * Hip flexibility...need to keep that window as open as I can for as long as I can... * You guys rock for helping me out!
Ditto Al's comment...ignore/don't worry about your arm swing...arm swing is a personal fingerprint kinda thing...whatever is relaxed for you works...Look at Bill Rodgers!...
Otherwise...like me (only you are still better)...is hip flexiblity allowing for extension.....I also have a right-left imbalance but I didn't notice anything like that on you.
Comments
You're faster than I am.
However, as a Certified Internet Run Form Analysisizer (tm), I see:
-the hands crossed in front of the chest / higher hands / glass tutu thing will be drilled out by concentrating on pulling elbows back instead of swinging arms back-forth.
-drill the elbow angle with 'holding the pebble in the elbow' practice - it normally takes me about 1-2 run sessions worth, and then I'm good for the year
-I agree that you are leaving money on the table with the bowed upper body - but in your case, it's probably exaggerated because there isn't any bend from the waist. Which is good. ToddTrifit's early analyses of Rinny and Crowie called this something like a "power curve," which ain't a thing. you might be able to obviate this uprightness by resuming 5 or so 'falling forward' repeats drills at the beginning of each run, as well as stopping mid-run at about 10-15 mins during some of the easy / EP / LRP workouts to practice this motion 3-4 times. When I do this - and I have to reinforce it every 8 weeks or so - the main thing i'm keeping in mind in those is falling from the chest AND pelvis, and leaning into it like a boxer. [edit - your year-to-year run pics from Kona don't show the same bow, so it's obviously not a long-standing form fault)
-I don't see any 'braking' going on in the lower body ... just nice, forward movement.
-looks like a rough neighborhood to run in.
-Thanks for putting it out there. And for going the extra mile (no pun intended) to film that outdoors and in a non-tradmill setting.
I think you might have created a new "critique my bike fit" -type craze.
@Dave-- what is the "pebble in the elbow thing"?
Coach P, I'll buy you a beer the next time I see you if you would be willing to do a "critique my run" analysis for me. You could even drop it in here to show everybody the difference between a good runner (you) and a bad runner (me), as you already have the video...
I dunno...I guess I have a very simplistic view of this video. If I were out running and crossed paths with ya (assuming I didn't know ya and you weren't wearing EN gear), I'd think I came across a good runner in his off season.
Here's what I mean...based on what I can see on how comfortable you look in your stride (the video for me was hella choppy but I think I could still see plenty), and based on what I know you look like in race condition...well, ya look like a runner in his offseason. Nothing more! I believe everything you picked apart will self-correct over the course of the next couple of months. Just my opinion, though.
Oh yeah, and I'm a big believer in letting your body find it's natural groove. Any fanatic of Track & Field or distance running has seen some pretty obscure form from some of the world's fastest humans!!!
Thanks for sharing!
I know nothing about running, but that never stopped me before ...
First, absolutely your shoulders look a bit far back (upright), but then you are "sprinting" (5:48 you said). Look at Michael Johnson, Olympic 200/400 champ, his form was remarkably upright. Best not tinker with that mentally until you look at what's happening when you're @ a 7:00/mi pace.
Second, arm swing. Ignore it, IMO. I've found that when trying to teach people to ski, where arm position is also an issue, asking someone to focus on where their hands or arms are is a recipe for confusion and disruption. Remember why the arms are doing what they are doing (in both skiing and running). They are trying to keep your Center of Gravity perfectly balanced while you are weighting and unweighting on alternate legs. Like the tail of a cheetah, they are simply providing stability. The idea is to NOT think about them, and let them do their work. Trying to force them into an idealized motion will probably lead to disruption of the more important activity going on from hips down. Think T Rex - Tiny Little Arms.
Next, rotation of arms vs straight forward and back. Again, your arms are along for the ride, not driving the train. Your body is rotating - very easily seen in the SloMo. The arms are counterbalancing that rotation, and so should have some arc to them to do that job, as well as going forward and back to help counterbalance what the lower limbs are doing in a more forward and back vector.
If you MUST think about your arms, pay attention first to your hands - are they in a fist, clenched, or are they loosely held with a gentle "OK" sign. No tension in the hands = less likely you'll overuse the arms they're attached to. Quiet, not driving, simply moving as the stronger elements - core, hips, leg - dictate.
Finally, where SHOULD your focus be, if not on the hands/arms and posture? Pay most attention to what's happening to your COG (center of gravity, somewhere below your navel). Try to get a feeling of eye of the hurricane calm there - it's supposed to be moving forward with minimum up and down or side-to-side while your hips, legs and body doing their thing trying to drive it forward. Get that center calm, with the least unnecessary motion, and the rest of your body parts will fall into place.
Do you know the heel-toe drop on your shoes? They look like they are on the thicker side - something like 12-13mm or so, and for that much of a difference, you have a real nice mid-foot strike. You also have barely any dorsiflexion, which is good (something I know I need to work on). I know when I use shoes with that much drop, I am more prone to heel striking.
My 3.5 cents. Similar to what others have mentioned.
1) Relax upper body.
2) Need a bit of a forward cant? Still hips to shoulders to head lined up in a straight line. I have found some of the aspects of Chi Running useful.
1. I have quad envy, Those are some serious tree trunks, do you get your pants custom made
2. Observing your run form at a slower pace might show some differences where you could get some insites. I would guess, at a slower pace your upper body would lossen up and the rotation would lessen.
3. Your running form is as expected i.e. very good.
* My hood is fancy...that is million dollar point around here. No, I do not live there but take immense pleasure in running by them all in spandex.
* I am the fastest fat man you know. Amen to that. Skinny peeps beware my fat butt at the end of any of your races.
* I do need to work on core strength...that "bowing" is what I do when I lack support in the midsection.
* Hip flexibility...need to keep that window as open as I can for as long as I can...
* You guys rock for helping me out!
Ditto Al's comment...ignore/don't worry about your arm swing...arm swing is a personal fingerprint kinda thing...whatever is relaxed for you works...Look at Bill Rodgers!...
Otherwise...like me (only you are still better)...is hip flexiblity allowing for extension.....I also have a right-left imbalance but I didn't notice anything like that on you.
Cool!...I may video tape a session soon and post.
...and is that not a great road for repeats!