No improvement in VDOT

jhpiii

This is my fifth season with EN. I started Nov OS with a VDOT of 47. I ended the OS with a VDOT of 47. Get Faster Plan was next which I ended today. Ran a half marathon today and ended up with a VDOT of 45.7. During both the OS and the GF plan, I ran all intervals without any problem. In fact, I ran most intervals at 7-10 seconds faster than prescribed. I also added time to my long run during the GF plan, per the Half Marathon hack, which took my long run to goal race duration. So, I can obviously run intervals fine but that is not helping my running ability in races. 

Question: What do I need to change to improve my run speed? Add strength training? Lengthen intervals? Find a coach and work on run mechanics? 

Any suggestions are much appreciated.  

Gordon Cherwoniak

John,

First off were you rested going in to the half marathon?  Coming off the OS and a GF plan with extra mileage you could have a reasonable amount of built up fatigue.

If you are in a plateau you may need to change things up.  I'm too slow to be giving good advise on this but I'd look in to a run focus block if you can fit that in to the schedule. Given you have finished the OS and a GF plan this is probably not in the cards this year. 

I also remember some of Matt Ancona's posts about running with a track club really helping him improve and break through a plateau. 

Other than that how were your tests and did you think you were going all out?  I ask this because you mention running all intervals without any problem.  When I hit a good test things are difficult at some point of the OS, not everyday but definitely some days.

Gordon

Coach Patrick

Thanks for posting John. Your 45.7 half mary vDOT is consistent with a 47 5k vDOT (I usually tell folks to subtract 1 vDOT point from 5k for a half, and subtract 2 to 2.5 for a mary from a 5k).

1 - I am curious to hear how your bike evolved. For many folks, you get one sport or the other, not gains in both (unless a newbie).

2 - A 47 vdot 5k per mile pace is 6:46; to run that 7 seconds faster on race day (as you did in training) would have given you a 22" improvement on your time, or a 1 point vDOT bump. But that said, 22" is EASILY lost in a 5k due to wind, poor pacing etc.

3 - Would be curious to see your per mile paces from your 5k and Half Marathon...execution could be the issue here.

4 - If the run fitness is good (plenty would kill for a 47 vDOT), can you improve your body comp? That's free speed...

Anyone else?

jhpiii

Thanks for responding guys.

@Gordon: I wouldn't say I was "rested" going into the HM, but it was the last week of GF Plan so it was test week. As you know, this week is a little lighter on volume. I took an extra day off before the HM. You hit on the problem I am seeing- I am a bad tester. Meaning, I can do all intervals at faster than prescribed pace but then I don't improve on my VDOT. I might think about getting someone to help me with running form.

@Patrick: 1) Bike training has gone very well. Even though I have been mentally concentrating on running, FTP is at the highest ever going into the HIM race prep phase.
3) Mile Splits:
Lap 1 7:57 (started in the wrong corral so I had to weave through some people)
Lap 2 7:39
Lap 3 7:31
Lap 4 7:55 (had to stop at porta pottie)
Lap 5 7:24
Lap 6 7:29
Lap 7 7:25
Lap 8 7:32
Lap 9 7:35
Lap 10 7:40
Lap 11 7:26
Lap 12 7:28
Lap 13 7:02
Lap 13.1 :50 (6:25 pace for stub lap)

4) No body comp improvement except to get more muscle in the core. I am 6'1" and weigh 172.

Gordon Cherwoniak

John,

I think there are several things going on here.  1) bad tester 2) fatigue going in to the 1/2.  How long of a transition did you do after the OS?  3) and the lower vdot on longer events as coach p points out.

The form help won't address #1.  You need to find some way to get in a test.  Maybe this is gettting a couple people faster to help pace the test, join in a smaller local 5k and use that. Finally look at the tests and find out if this is a pacing issue, going out to fast, not mentally pushing it?  Working form will help with fatigue and especially helping you maintain speeds in the later part of a race but if you don't figure out how to push yourself on a test making running advances will be more difficult. 

Gordon

bc4ua

I went through this same thing a couple weeks ago. I feel like I've worked harder than ever on the run, but my vdot was flat upon re-testing. Aside from the bad test variable, I think it's

Pacing/Fatigue: If you can hit the same vdot numbers as when you started this plan, you've improved. The fatigue is there, and you went into the HM beat up. I know you had a lighter week due to test week on the GF plan; but that's most likely a very different week than when you're doing a honest taper for a HM. Also judging by your splits, I think there was some left on the table for whatever reason.

Bike improvement: This shouldn't be ignored either. If you make huge gains on the bike, there's a cost to those gains and it's not realistic to make gains on the run at the same time. Had I not been so beat up from the bike, I know I could have thrown in extra run volume and really gone to a new level. But I'll gladly take a huge improvement on the bike if my run is holding steady/slightly improving on far less volume than I was doing.

TH3 FRB

You really need to compare apples to apples. So if you establish your VDOT with a 5k and then train OS/GF style, it isn't necessarily fair to compare a new VDOT from a 1/2 mary. There may also be other associated factors like how well you paced that 1/2, nutrition becomes a big factor at that distance, your physiological fast twitch vs slow twitchand tendencies, and mental focus for a longer effort. 5k VDOT testing is fine for establishing training paces, especially for 1-2 mile intervals and speed work, but you should generally expect less "agreement" as you compare results from different distances. I'm pretty sure I couldn't run a 1/2 or full marathon at my 5k VDOT equivalent pace right now because I haven't been training to race that longer distance specifically, even though I've been doing some longer runs.

mgraffeo

Seems to me like you've got an extra 45 seconds of weaving through people and peeing in your HM time.

Don't beat yourself up. You ran a decent race. Training response is not linear. Keep at it.

BTW, are all your runs outdoors, or is there a treadmill component to your training?

jhpiii

@Mike - Thanks for the response. Almost all of my training has been outdoors, despite the frigid winter. The race conditions were actually pretty nice compared to training conditions. I agree that I probably have some time to save in being more efficient with my pre-race setup.

@Joel - Good feedback. I think I am definitely more of a natural short distance runner, when going for speed. Of course, at a certain pace, I could run forever, but need better practice at pacing longer runs. I feel like the OS/GF long runs, with their intervals, don't really prepare you well for constant speed 1/2 mary distance racing. I might try to do more race-like long runs in my race training this year. Thanks for your response, hope to see you on the roads in VB.

John

TH3 FRB

I haven't looked at the GF plan but the 1-2 mile intervals in the OS plans are definitely good bang for the buck. IMO though, we are missing the traditional tempo run and variations like progression long runs - even in the 1/2 and IM plans I've seen. There is only so much you can manage to fit into a week but I think a lot of folks around here would benefit from swapping in a nice mid-distance tempo run here and there to help develop the steady moderate effort capabilities needed for 10k and 1/2 marathon racing.