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Swim Skin / Bike Leg Execution Recommendations

I almost threw this up in the IM Texas forum but wanting maximum input/opinions from across the Haus, I thought I would put this here and hopefully get wider exposure.  The question is centered around the immediate concern of Texas but has more long term aspects to it as well.  Enough rambling, get to the question already!

I'm a slow swimmer.  PB IM swim of 1:24:xx at IM Louisville.  I also have a strong personal preference of swimming without a wetsuit instead of with one.  My shoulders / arms get really tired when swimming with wetsuits (experience 2xIM wetsuit swims and multiple half swims).  And again, out of three total IM swims, 2 with wetsuit and 1 without, the without is fastest by minutes (the TT start of Louisville probably plays into that a bit as well, but the upper body fatigue issue is constant).  So this year, I specifically chose IMTexas and IMLouisville in part because they both offer non-wetsuit swims.  I had initially planned to buy a swim skin for use in both of these races (and potentially in future years as IMLouisville will probably become a regular in my lineup b/c my wife grew up there and the in-laws still live there, mega-convenience and on scene support).  I have focused on swimming 'faster' (for me) during my pool sessions this season, but I'm still going to be a MOP guy at best.  Regardless, if there's time to be had or less energy to expend getting to T1, I'd like to put the time/energy in my pocket for use later.

I wanted an swim skin for a couple of reasons:  1.  I'm a slow swimmer and willing to buy time where I can.  2.  I could wear my entire kit underneath and save time in T1 (I've done the monkey dance with a wet jersey and its annoying).  Neither is going to get me significant time, but anything is good with me.

This morning I started thinking about Texas and ordering a swim skin.  Then I realized that in all my races, I've always worn a jersey on the bike.  With Texas and Louisville both being exposed to the sun, I was/am concerned about exposing my shoulders to the sun for the bike leg.  I thought about desoto wings, but don't know if I want to go that way (and would then lose part of the reason of doing the swim skin in the first place (no monkey dance in T1).  

Bottom line, 2 questions:  

1.  Jersey or tri-top for hot sunny races (specifically Texas/Louisville, but generally for bike courses exposed to sun).  Obviously this plays into 2.

2.  Recommendations and pro/cons on different swim skins?  I'm currently looking at the TYR lineup and without the Haus' input, would have probably gone with the Elite due to durability (I would like it to last a few years).

For context, I'm 6'3, currently sitting around 184 lbs, will race somewhere around 182-ish, and last 1000 yard swim TT was a 16:09.  Thanks everyone!

Comments

  • DeSoto now makes a tri top that has short sleeves. That might be something you'll want to look into. I plan on wearing it at IMTX. That stated, I'd wear a swimskin over any tri top and/or shorts that have open pockets.

    Type of swimskin doesn't really matter. They're all about the same.

    Let's address your wetsuit issue. There's pretty much no way a "slow" swimmer (using your words) should ever be slower in a wetsuit than without. It's almost impossible unless your wetsuit doesn't fit properly... which sounds like it doesn't from your description of things. I'm a pretty decent swimmer and I'm firmly in the camp of wear the wetsuit whenever possible.
  • I'm not sure about a swim skin as I think they are an expensive tri toy for a minimal return on that sort of investment of dollars and if your not a good swimmer it really would not do you much good anyway.

    Hands down on a good fitting wetsuit. You may be having a fitting issue with yours.
  • I'm gonna split the difference and use a BlueSeventy trisuit . S/B/R same outfit. No EN oh well!

    I agree with Bob about wetsuits. You may consider a sleeveless wetsuit to alleviate the constriction and fatigue your feeling in your shoulders. Could be the best of both worlds for you. I have done multiple tests with my sleeveless vs my fullsuit and I am faster by 10-15seconds per 1/2 mile with the fullsuit.

    As far as the sun goes??? I got one word . SCAPE sunscreen the stuff is magic!
  • Roy, If you are a slow swimmer your best bang for buck would be to invest the money in a good swim coach or use it to join a masters swim group which provides some coaching.  Obviously this is more a long term investment but the long term benefits far outweigh using the money for a new tool with little benefit.  

    I was never a swimmer growing up and really didn't start swimming seriously until two years ago.  Back when I started my swim technique was utterly terrible (by my standards now) and I didn't have a clue except for the YouTube videos I watched and which provided very little in terms of details on how to properly perform a good swim stroke.  After nearly a year of masters swim sessions and coaching and tips from a Total Immersion coach, my technique is significantly improved and overall.. I'm faster, more efficient in my stroke and overall a much stronger swimmer.  

    Of all the things you can do to improve your swimming, the best ROI is from improving your technique which will trump any high tech swim skin any day.

     

  • @Roy. I had purchased the xterra swim skin but didn't fit correctly. ended up busting the zipper trying to zip up with shoe lace. Expensive mistake that I won't make again. Given that I will probably purchase another one not for in water benefits but because I hate trying to put on tri top when im wet. I try to be a minimalist in the transitions.
  • Can I have your 16min 1000M time when you are done with it?

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  • Posted By tim cronk on 21 Mar 2013 09:51 AM

    I'm gonna split the difference and use a BlueSeventy trisuit . S/B/R same outfit. No EN oh well!



    I agree with Bob about wetsuits. You may consider a sleeveless wetsuit to alleviate the constriction and fatigue your feeling in your shoulders. Could be the best of both worlds for you. I have done multiple tests with my sleeveless vs my fullsuit and I am faster by 10-15seconds per 1/2 mile with the fullsuit.



    As far as the sun goes??? I got one word . SCAPE sunscreen the stuff is magic!
    The DeSoto two-piece suits can also alleviate the constrictive feeling and probably more so than a sleeveless.
  • Posted By David McLaughlin on 21 Mar 2013 08:09 AM

    I'm not sure about a swim skin as I think they are an expensive tri toy for a minimal return on that sort of investment of dollars and if your not a good swimmer it really would not do you much good anyway.



    Hands down on a good fitting wetsuit. You may be having a fitting issue with yours.


    It's certainly a cost/benefit thing.  I think people really underestimate how much drag open pockets on tri tops and shorts actually add to the equation.  That's why a swimskin is a good option to cover up the pockets.
  • I appreciate all the "become a better swimmer advice". This thread may be a good example of why you have to paint a picture of everything else you are doing prior to asking what you think is a rather simple question. To touch on some points: 1. I'm already working 1-on-1 with a swim coach. 2. My local master's group meets during the week in the evening directly when I'm helping with homework, splashing bubbles in baths, and snuggling with the kids in bed. Given all my other time away from my family, I will miss the swim cutoff before I give up those events to attend the masters scheduled sessions. 3. Wetsuit: I tried (and race tested) multiple wetsuits prior to purchasing the one I have now. That included doing a half (Wildflower) with the desoto two piece. Prior to buying my current wetsuit, I met with the company reps (2xu) at an expo, tested to include swimming in two different sizes, and made an informed size decision. I don't think size is the issue. The probable issue is that I don't swim regularly with a wetsuit and therefore am not used to the constriction on my already weak third sport. I haven't tried a sleeveless yet. That might make a difference. Regardless, the wetsuit discussion is a moot point for Louisville since they are not allowed at all there.

    So I guess my point is, yes, I am doing a lot of other things to work on my swim. Given that...

    -Racing clothing options - @Bob and Tim, I'd really like to flash the EN colors so another tri suit option isn't in the picture for me, at least yet. The mojo I gained from my races last year from multiple "Go EN!s" I heard on the bike and the run were pretty motivating and worth a lot to me. So either I roll with the EN jersey / Tri-top combo or tri-top only. I had really wanted to try tri-top only due to time savings in transition.

    -@Tim - Sunscreen, I definitely let the peeps goop tons on the stuff on me. I'm concerned about Texas because I will be coming in with relatively little-no existing sun exposure because of the time of year. Once I roll into Louisville, I will be brown from months running in the sun over the summer and it won't be that big of a concern to me. I will take a look at the type you recommended.

    @John, the minimalist thing is a big part of why I'm considering the skin in the first place. I swam in the Ville in tri shorts only and spent way to much time struggling getting my jersey onto my wet body.

    @Jimmy, do note that my time is in yards, so you'll have to add a few minutes to get it up to meters. Either way, I'm aiming for sub 15:xx on my next swim TT, so once I'm done with it, its all your's image

    At the end of the day, still welcoming any thoughts/comments on different swim skins out there before I get serious and call customer service folks! Thanks again everyone

  • Re: wetsuit, I agree with what others have said. I had similar issues with multiple wetsuits and then I went to a cheap Xterra Vortex sleeveless and it was like night and day. Did not choke or constrict me like the full sleeves did and my arms and shoulders did not get tired. Last yr I spent big $$ on a Huub Archimedes 3:5 wetsuit and I can't say enough good things about that suit. The top is so flexible that you forget you are wearing and it leads to zero extra shoulder fatigue. I wanted a long sleeve for similar reasons to you in that I could wear my coolwings and tri top under it and minimize time in T1.

    Re: swim skin, I did Louisville in the Xterra Velocity-M and it was nice to have the minimalist ease in T1. However, the thing is super delicate and mine ripped so I only got 2 uses out of it (HIM and IM) which was an expensive lesson. These sometimes trade on eBay if you want a cheaper option. If I do another non-wetsuit swim, I will be buying a Huub SKN-1. http://www.huubdesign.com/swimskins.html. It had great reviews and if it's anywhere close to the quality of their wetsuit I know I will be pleased...

    Re: sun screen: I used to use Scape. Tim, do they still sell it? I couldn't find it anywhere last yr... I put sunscreen on the night before the race and then another thick layer in the morning and immediately before the race. I 'think' it soaks into my skin (or that's what I convinced myself or anyways). Don't forget the little spot on your lower back as well where your kit rides up on the bike. I let the sun screen girls do their job after T1 and T2, but they are trying to be quick and often miss some spots...
  • Swim Skins - I actually have 4 of them; I got two freebies for some reason a few years a go. The Xterra is flimsy, not worth using. The tyr is rock solid. I don't think any of them help time very much, have done swims with and without them.

    Your swim time - Your TT time is the same as mine. I do an IM wetsuit swim in 73 minutes. Race execution must be the difference, as I know you have sufficient fitness to translate your swim "speed" into an better IM swim split.

    Shoulders - Having used the DeSoto system for 8 years, I note that the design of the upper specifically eases strain on the shoulders. But don't get the 5 mm sleeves that may make your problem worse. Ideal solution might be DeSoto vest top, for sholder freedom, and, if you have a big kick, the 3/4 SpeedTube bottom.

    Racing with jersey vs sleeveless to save sunburn. Yeah, that's a risk, and will end up being your personal preference. I thought I had solved every IM problem there is, but I have figured out how to avoid burn on the scapular area, from aero position on bike all day. Even the wings don't do - there is a gap back there as well. Slathering from volunteers, putting a spray can of screen in T2 bag to spray on at the start of the run, putting on multiple layers of screen in the middle of the night, I've tried a zillion things, and always get somewhat of a burn there in sunny summer IMs, or tropical anytime (TX qualifies as that.)

    Personally, I still go with DeSoto Forza bibs and the EN top, out of loyalty, but my preference would be a DeSoto trisuit.
  • Thanks to everyone for the thoughts/recommendations. I'm going to chew on it for a week or so and then make a final decision. Your input has been very helpful!
  • John/Al, thanks again for the feedback. Based on your recommendations and some thought about my race, I'm going to look at renting a sleeveless wetsuit. Normally, I'd buy, but I don't have an opportunity to try-on/swim in different options prior to Texas. I'll just cross my fingers on the fit for now and then might look to buy a sleeveless at a future point. Thanks again for your input!
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