Why no hill training on bike

[Deleted User]

I am sure this has been discussed, but can't find the specifics. There doesn't seem to be hill repeats or 'low cadence' work on the bike.  I don't understand the concept of flattening the hills by using power numbers.  

My A race is IM Whistler which has a good amout of climbing - especially at the end. I am a BOP athlete, using power over the last 3 years and completed 2 IMs (Canada and CDA) - which is why I am asking about hill work.   By default, my outside training rides will have hills as there really isn't a ton of flats in my area so I can practice the concept.

Thanks in advance for educating me....

Joe Matchette

@Ann - since you live around hills, you will get 'hill training' by default. In order to flatten the hill, you strive to maintain the same power level on the uphill as you do on the flats and downhills. In order to do that, you will naturally shift to your easier(est) gears, and then once you have run out of gears, you will have to slow your cadence in order to keep your power output the same.

At some point you might get to such a low cadence that you have to 'bust' your prescribed power level. Then it is "you gotta do what you gotta do"....because you don't want to fall over.

Does this help?

imc1792

@Ann, once the summer comes for me out here in west coast of Canada, I do like 6 weeks leading into IM Canada for example where I do as much of my z4 on hill repeats. I up the power effort to 10% above my FTP and try to accumulate the mount of z4 time in the wko plan.

I am fortunate to have 7-8 hills ranging from 2-3 km taking about 6.5 to 9 min to climb so i factor them all in and accumulate the total z4 time. then when facing Richter, Yellow or the new climbs at Whistler, I am ready for 30-40min of climbing.

Z4 is z4 whether uphill or flats.

kimmydct

I have wondered this too as hills are not my friend and I do quassy every year which is very hilly, I do my z5 intervals up hills and try to ride hilly leading up to that race.

John Withrow

@Ann, riding steady on hills is a skill that once acquired, you can simply turn it on and off like a light switch. So I ride very steady during race rehearsals and races, but I seek out as many hills as I can for my ABP rides during the season and literally crush myself up the hills to generate a higher VI and more TSS points for the limited amount of time I have to train. My opinion is that if you have hills where you live, you are lucky (unless you were training for IMFL or similar) so you should enjoy them (in a masochistic kind of way).

If you listen to the power webinar, you will learn more about 'flattening the hills'. Do you not understand the concept of why we race like that, or do you simply have trouble implementing that concept?

[Deleted User]

Thanks everyone for the information. I will ensure my ABP rides have more hills....and pay attention to the watts a little better.

John - I get the reason why we race like that.....yes, my problem is implementing = practice. Yep, we actually have a route called 7 hills of Kirkland....ugg what a ride! I will be doing this more over the next few months.

I think I just freaked out a little bit since in the past years I have specifically done hill repeats. Thanks for talking me off the ledge and giving me some ideas.

Joe Matchette

@Ann - once you figure it out, it is a skill you can turn on and off pretty much at will. Question -- what device do you use to display your Watts while riding? And where is it?

[Deleted User]

Device - now is a Garmin 800 was a 310. It's on the front of my handle bars...so no excuse on not looking / seeing it. I have the lap avg watts in the middle of the screen and the watts for last 10 sec right below. I am open to recommendations on what I should be displaying.
I also read on someone's race report they have auto lap on @ 2 miles so they shoot for hitting their watts for that time period then start over for avg watts. I have mine on auto lap @ 5 miles. That worked last week, but it wasn't too hilly of a ride.

Now it's just practice....and pay attention.

Joe Matchette

Ann - as you get more used to trying to hold your power at a specific level, I would suggest going to 2 or 3sec averaging for the display. Yes it will bounce around a bit, but it will help you avoid going too hard when you start going up the hill. I would also suggest using that setting while on the trainer just so you can see how it responds. Perhaps set one window with 3 second averaging, and right next it set one up for 10sec.

The auto lap function is something you can dial in later as you get ready for a race. Personally I set mine up for 7 mile intervals for HIM and IM (roughly 20 minutes b/c longer than that, the law of large numbers means it is very hard to bring it back up without going WAY too hard....)

Dino Sarti

I do hill repeats. My mid week FTP ride is always in the hills. Usually one climb behind my house. The thing to remember is that plans are much tailored to indoor riding on a trainer. That way everyone in North America is speaking the same language. The plan can't say "ride 7 hills route x2 today". So, you gotta ask questions, use your judgement and tailor it to your environment and opportunities.

John Withrow

@Ann- I use the 2-mile auto lap while training, but more specifically while racing. It allows me to stay inside a very small box all day during a race and gives me a new 'game' to play every 6 minutes or so to hit my target watts. I also agree with Joe that 3 second averaging will force you to be even more steady while training and racing.

And if I had a ride nearby called 7 Hills of anything, I'd be doing that route all the time. But be very clear, there's a BIG difference between training hard and racing steady. Riding steady is a skill that you certainly need to practice until you know how to master it... But once you master it, you don't need to do it very often. So maybe you could even do something like every other hill of those 7 you could ride one very steady, then ride the next one very hard and spike your watts. Alternate which one is steady each week. If you're really serious about it, join strava and see how these different types efforts compare and how they improve over time.

kimmydct

" I seek out as many hills as I can for my ABP rides during the season and literally crush myself up the hills to generate a higher VI and more TSS points for the limited amount of time I have to train."

Very helpful John. I think I have probably been training hills more like practicing for racing.... Trying to be steady. Duh. Maybe I won't get dropped on the hills on my group rides if I follow the above methodology.

3 years with EN and still learning!

Coach Rich

Kim,

Excellent advice from everyone here and, from a practical standpoint, Dino is spot on: I can't globally prescribe hill repeats because people's access / lack of access to hills is all over the map.

[Deleted User]

Thanks everyone - and now I get it. I agree I think my outdoor riding is like Kim said!


SO GLAD I ASKED!! Awesome!!

Tom Glynn

two key points I think. One is of course power. Learn to push power to higher levels and everything seems easy .

Also, cadence. WIth hills you are typically riding at a lower cadence as you grind your way to the top. If you train at a high cadence indoors and then switch to outdoor hill climbing it can be hard. Practice the low cadence / high power stuff inside.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/the-power-of-quadrant-analysis,-by-hunter-allen.aspx