Running shoes
Folks, need some recommendations for running shoes. My Asics gels felt like cement shoes during my last HIM from all the water I poured on myself. I'm racing my first IM (Florida) in November, so perhaps I just stick with normal running shoes for that race because of the distance. However, I would love some lighter shoes for the Olympic distances. Thoughts?
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Comments
I love Nike Lunar Trainers. Very lightweight trainers. Great for racing too.
I confess I do ALL my races, of any length, 5K to 42 K, stand alone and triathlon, in the LIGHTEST shoes I can find, which right now are 3.9 oz Asics Pirhanas (racing flats). I train in the lightest trainers I can find, now using 7-8 oz Saucony Fastwitch and Newtons. And I'm 5' 9.5", 145-150# with good mechanics and no injury history. I've done two IMs a year for the past three years, plus a number of shorter races, and average about 1000-1100 miles a year running, with this minimalist approach. I'm not saying this is for everyone, but I do like to present my example of what is possible.
I've compared my speed in 4 oz shoes to 12 oz shoes (e.g. Asics 2100 series), and found a 25-40 sec/mile difference in pace. Compared to 8 oz shoes, it's about 15-25 sec/mile. I don't use the racing flats for all training, as I'd have to go through about 10 pairs a year, and can't afford that.
@Al - that's an amazing difference, but it doesn't surprise me, I'm like Matt in that I like the lunars I just used to keep them for races, but I bought a new pair last weekend and have started to use them for training. I think they're about 8oz's they feel realy light compared to the asicsthat I used to wear.
I think we can't ignore the fact you are a bigger doode. I run in asics gel landreth, and they are fine. Have always toyed with lighter shoes for race day but I run "heavy" - you can hear me coming a mile away and my community fears 5k test day - so I don't think they would work. I would check out K-swiss as well; maybe send Bryan Ogle a note as he's over there now and might give you some recommendations.
P
I'm a huge fan of Nike Lunar Racers. I've trained and raced in them for two years now, no injury. Mid-foot strike, 55 years old, 168 lbs. Your mileage may vary.
I ran in asics for years (a variety of different shoes, ending up with the 21xx series of late). I switched over to Brooks Ravenn. They are a bit lighter but still have good support. I can cope with flats for things up to a half marathon, anything longer than that and my form just can't keep up and I become crippled
Was bummed to move away from asics cause I had really good luck. However something changed in the 2140's (from the 2130's) that just didn't agree with my legs at all. I guess the moral of the story for me is now is the time to figure out what shoes work and just buy a bunch for the season.
-Dave
This thread has sparked a question in my mind. I will be purchasing a new pair of shoes (for training, and I will probably go ahead and run my HIM in April in them) the first week of March.
I have had my eyes on the Newtons, as I figured I would have time to get used to them before my race. I have thought about purchasing a pair of the Zoots. I am 5'10", 156 lbs, and I have solid running form. I have onnly ever run in 'clunker' shoes (meaning big and very cushioned)...my current shoes are Adidas AdiSTAR Salvations that weigh something like 12-12.5 ounces. My vDot is 46-47 (I think I remember that correctly), so I am thinking taking some weight off my be an appropriate step at this point.
Anyone have words of advice for me...things I should be thinking about? Has anyone owned both the Newtons and some Zoots who can compare them for me?
The Zoots are a decently light weight shoe with enough support for a marathon. Not a racing flat (unless you go with the new speed zoots) but lighter than most training shoes. The Zoots seem to have a tall heel height to me, but they are really comfortable to run in sockless. Of course they are marketed for tri-geeks with speed laces, water drainage, and are supper easy to slide on.
The Newtons have the power lugs. Some people think they make a huge difference, I personally don't notice them all that much. However I am a mid to fore foot strike already. To me the newtons just feel like any other running shoe, but they teach (and kind of force) you not to heal strike. Most people are advised to slowly adjust to the newtons however I just through them on and did my normal runs no problem.
I go through shoes way to fast to train in either (because I'm cheap), but I will probably race barefoot and in zoots this year.
Now that I said all that, I would not take advice from others on shoes...they are way to personal. Go to a store, try them on and see what you think. If they don't fit perfect don't bother. If both fit perfect give one a try and see what you think. If you look around you can get last years zoots for a great price at a few places such as running warehouse or some of the big tri stores.
I'm interested in trying them out again.
I'm not going to buy a pair every 100 miles or so.
I find that walking around a store with a pair of shoes on doesn't help me much with fit. I think I need to actually run in them for 50 miles before I say, "yeah, I like these shoes".
Is there advice out there to help find good fitting shoes other than buy three or four and have at it?
Will treadmill running help with wear and tear, or is it a midsole issue that causes these shoes to wear out?
"Born to Run" seem to give some positive press to the Nike Free shoes. Any feedback on these?
tom
I have been wearing Nike Free shoes on all my brick runs for a number of months now and really like them. I like the lightness of the shoe and the flex in the soles and have not yet found another running shoe that feels as good.
That said, at 178 pounds I am nervous about going very far in them, and have been wearing the Nike Lunar Trainer for the rest of my runs. For many years I wore a wide variety of Asics shoes but the last couple of pair (even in the 2E width) did not provide me with enough room in the toe box.
The Lunar Trainer feels pretty good but again, I really like the flex in the Nike Free sole, which gives me the feel of wearing a light slipper.
Doing some research tonight. Found Slowtwitch has a couple of good reviews on shoes and racing flats here
tom
@Mancona - Which model Zoots do you use?
I like buying running shoes which explains why I have so many right now...
Like P I am a non Kenyon. I used to run in the Asics Nimbus and Mizuno Wave Creation - neutral shoes for bigger doodes. I switched to the Landreths a couple of years ago as I did not need all shoe that I had before. Landreths remain my day in day out shoe more because they last longer than the others than any other reason. I have been "racing" in asics speedstars for the last few years. They fit the same as the Landreths but are much lighter. I raced LP in them with no issues. While they are lighter they are certainly not a race flat and have enough cushion for a 180 lb doode going 42k. The new speedstar 4's [just got em a couple of weeks agi - they are red now] are awesome. The only downside is that I wear the outer edge in about 250 miles, more of a crown of the road thing. Besides it is nice to get the mental edge from the light shoes when you want to go fast.
I also have the zoot nuetral racers which I like but think they are a little funky getting them on and off even though they were designed to be. They also look really weird. Not sure if I will buy another pair.
The luna racers are great shoes. They feel the lightest and also the softest if that makes any sense. I would also have no issues with going long in them. My only issues with the Nikes is that they are a touch narrow for my feet and the canvas feeling upper is something I would not want to do without socks.
Newtons are a whole other ball game. I bought some a while back and liked them after I followed the recs and got used to them slowly. By the time they were worn out I was irritated by the fact that they were 175 plus shipping. I opted out as the others are half as much and I like to have a bunch around.
You have to find out what works for you...good luck
I've been running the Zoot Energy on and off for a few months. I'll probably try the TT or speedzoot to race in though. I think the speedzoot is about 6oz.
P, I think you just called me fat... you lightweight.
There are too many variables: weight, running style/gait, running surface, injuries etc.
My only recommendation is to go to good running retail store and try as many pairs as you can.
The best, is to go to a retailer that also offer gaint analysis and match shoes accordingly.
like the others have said- the process is highly individual with lots of variables.
that being said- ask the store about it's return policy. the online retailers have 30 day return policies as long as you don't trash their shoes in the interim. plenty of running stores do the same thing without advertising it (sometimes they restrict you to indoor use only but that's still a lifesaver when it comes to $100 shoes and testing stuff out).
Like Coach P said I am over at K-Swiss now and have to say our product is very good. Triathlon, unlike other sports, is not one where pros can represent a product because of $$! Too much riding on too few opportunities. Guys like Lieto, Raelart, Matty Reed, etc are not going to run in a shoe just for $$! I have been running in our shoes for over a year and they just keep getting better.
Not to get into specific shoe discussions, but I go between 175-180 depending on time of year and am pretty solid mid-foot striker. Our K-ONA is a great shoe at 9.0 ounces but holds up to lots of miles. Very little rise from toe to heel and you feel like you are really in the middle of your foot. Totally dialed in for tri as it has drainage holes and holes for airflow right at the toes! the Keahou is another great shoe and would be classified as a stability shoe, but neurtral. No posting. The K-ONA has a bit of posting under the arch but that input came from guys who are doing IM and saying they like the bit of support late in the marathon when they are concentrating on their form!
You might also see that our shoes are pretty reasonable on the price scale!! www.kswiss.com
I found this search guide to help find shoes that fit your gait. Here. I slugged in that I wanted a racing flat for a marathon and it pulls together a list of shoes that fit the criteria. I can then look at flexibility/stability trade offs, weight, toe box height and other specs to help make a decision.
tom
My buddy, Scotty Davis, who's an ambassador for K-Swiss got me into these shoes (K-Ona S) last year and I finally feel like I've found the right shoe for me. Just a great shoe.
Thanks, Chris
I have gone to the dark side with minimalist shoes, Vibrum and a water shoe. Planning a half marathon at the end of April and will use a minimalist shoe in a race for the first time.
Bit scary but I have had some breakthroughs lately with the shoes and want to see the experiment through.
A co-worker actually won a marathon and set a coarse record. The next year, the day before the race he decided to switch to a racing flat. DFNed with bloody feet and never raced again.
Big changes in shoes takes time.
@Chris
You are AT K-Swiss? Meaning what? Meaning, you can get me a 'deal' on trying out that Kona shoe?