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Indoor riding in season?

Is there any sense out there that there is an advantage to doing the mid-week approximately hour-long bike ride on a trainer?  You hear about people (Potts, if I recall, for example) who supposedly do this.

Putting aside the tedium factor, is there any evidence about the "focused I will hit my numbers" thing you can do inside vs the real life of riding outside?  My guess is the whole thing wouldn't be that different in the long run, but I'm curious.

Please note, I'm ONLY asking about the shorter interval rides, not a long trainer ride.

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Comments

  • WJ-- I do ALL of my mid week bikes inside yr round. Part of this is logistics. But also, I like really focusing on the main sets which is infinitely easier for me to do on my rollers in my basement.
  • FWIW, I used to do all mid-week intervals sessions on the trainer. But once I found SAFE places to do VO2 intervals (a hill inside a park) and FTP intervals (wide shoulder with NO driveways or stoplights/signs little traffic) I tend to go outside May-Oct. My own take is I get the same benefit, maybe even more, by being outside.
  • I think there are a decent amount of people who choose to do their mid-week rides indoors for these reasons, including a lot of fast people.

    As far as the Pott's angle, while he's definitely somewhat famous for his indoor riding, he has also gotten some criticism for it and his not exactly record breaking bike splits on the big island. Regardless, it's fun discussion but I think we all know the dangers of trying to draw many conclusions for AG training based off of pro's habits.

    Ultimately, I think this is just a very personal thing. If you can hit your numbers indoor, then there are definitely big advantages in terms of logistics and hitting your workout exactly as planned and structured. For me, I can't hit my numbers indoors. My indoor numbers suck compared to my outdoor power. I can just get a higher intensity workout outside while having a lot more fun than being on the trainer, so it's just a no brainer.

    But, I also live virtually at the base of a series of 10-20 minute climbs which I can be hitting near endless repeats of within 5 minutes of rolling out my back door. If I was facing a drive, a bunch of stop lights or a bunch of other factors that interrupted my ability to get solid work in at that sweet-spot of 10-20' intervals, I'd probably have a radically different opinion on this.
  • has for me it is a time and logistics consideration. it will take me 20 minutes to ride to a location that I can concentrate on my sets for that day. I am doing my training in the AM before I go to work. getting into a situation on the road such as a flat has the potential to really mess me up for a workout that day or put me behind the eight ball with my commuting time and I don't like to rush.
  • I have always preferred riding indoors during the week, and it's even common for me to do many rides indoors on the weekend as well. I always make sure I get on my bike as my long rides get longer. I don't even ride my bike on a trainer, just an actual stationary bike. I might get outdoors on an average of 3 times a month. My rides outside seem much easier to me because of how hard I ride indoors. I make sure to ride enough outdoors for building up back, arm, and shoulder strength as needed for racing. Riding indoors has always been a convenience and time saving factor for me, not to mention safety and being able to ride no matter how early, late, or weather Conditions. It also means less maintenance work on my tri bike, and therefore easier on my wallet. I didn't even buy any new tires last year.
  • As a Newbie EN member, I appreciate this thread and the comments. Useful stuff.
  • I do the wednesday HIM brick on the strainer inside. I can drink coffee in aero during the warm up set. For me it is less enjoyable but more time efficient.
  • I am indoors a lot. Not only the weekday ride but also I'll often do the 2-hour Sunday ABP indoors. It is logistically easier and I'm convinced it's a better quality workout. My HR is higher for longer and I become mentally stronger.
  • I also plan to keep my FTP intervals during the week on the trainer as I can do that WKO when it's already dark outside image
    The thing about the mental stuff Matt mentioned is also a good one IMHO ... even thou it becomes much more relevant for longer rides (over 1,5 hours in my case) than for short hard workouts!
  • I do all interval work on trainer, due to time management factors. I try to get outside for longer rides but sometimes even have to do those inside. May have to do my 6 hour RR inside
  • I've done in-season midweek rides for about eight years, have an indoor/outdoor delta of about 15-20 watts, and I've long been curious about the opposite - that is, is doing the LT work indoors costing me Training Stress (and representing a large opportunity cost over a season)? On one hand, and as Matt points out, using HR as a marker of my body's response to the work done indoors, I'm getting just as good as session as a I do on the open road. On the other hand, a watt is a watt, and if I'm pushing 15-20 fewer watts indoors than out to the same effect, am I getting the same workout? I'm accruing less training stress, burning fewer calories, and simply not doing the same work.



    Again, a point of curiosity, particularly week after week, as these small increments accrue.
  • I live 2-3 minutes from a county road. Not too much traffic, an occasional stop sign. Lots of mini-rollers. Lots of wind, particularly in spring. But no real climbs anywhere within an hour's ride. (just more rollers as you get farther away) So, for me, it wouldn't be too much about the interruptions and time-management.

    But I'm That Guy whose indoor wattage is better than outdoor. Seems like it might we worth a try for me, reading your input. Thanks.

    (BTW, I didn't mean to imply that we should all do as Andy does...I just meant that there's obviously a school of thought out there that it's a good idea....and of course we have no idea if AP would be better or worse if he rode outdoors all the time.)
  • I do the mid week ride on the trainer due to logistics. I get up at 4 AM for my workouts and I can go out to the garage where I have a pretty cool setup. Knock out the work and then get ready for work. No fuss no muss!
  • This thread has caused me to rethink my plan.

    Previously, once the OS was over, the trainer got put away. Unlike all ya'all, my FTP has been IDENTICAL inside versus outside....and I don't expect much to change this year, but I will test and see.

    My work has gotten busier this year, so I am already figuring how to keep the logistics to a minimum. This mights just be one of the ways I do so.
  • I'm in for trainer rides year round. I think that they are the best bang for the time crunched buck.

    Main advantages:
    Low admin costs before and after the workout
    Low risk for mechanical
    Can ride early (in the dark)
    Can't get run over by a truck
    They allow one to still "babysit" kids (ensure that an adult is present to call 911 if needed)
    Can target prescribed main sets with accuracy and reliability.
    Toughens you up mentally

    I generally do 2-3 rides per week on a trainer year round. For me, FTP session and intervals are on trainer, and long rides are outside in season.

    I admit that I used to hate it, but have come to embrace the benefits.
  • I was a "Once spring hits the trainer is put away" gal but this year due to schedule and logistics I am thinking about nailing my weekday rides inside just to make sure that I can get them done. At least one of the two rides I aim to do inside now. I have found that trying to get away from work in time to drive 30 minutes home in order to let the dogs out and then drive 30 mins to an hour to a workout place to execute a ride or brick is not so feasible these days.

  • I'm not a cyclist and prior to this winter have never done intervals on a bike!  I am not sure I could do the same kind of FTP effort outside that I can achieve on a trainer i.e. head down, snot dripping etc, without riding off the road or into some immovable object.  So, in the interest of self preservation, until i learn outside cycling, I intend to do the FTP intervals on a trainer.  But what intrigues me is a suggestion I saw elsewhere to do the FTP work on the trainer then immediately head outside for the longer 75-85% stuff.  

  • I had some back-and-forth offline with William on this topic today and ended up pulling some data that I thought would be interesting to folks. Essentially I was trying to validate the assertion that the trainer rides are better quality workouts. So I pulled all of my weekend in-season workouts leading up to 70.3 Kansas last year. Some are the Saturday FTP rides and others are the ABPs. But setitng aside the workout structure, let's just look at the avg HR and IF for the rides overall:



    May 5 – outdoors – 230' IF 0.85 / HR 129

    May 12 – outdoors – 230' IF 0.87 / HR 136

    May 26 – outdoors – 100' IF 0.82 / HR 121

    May 27 – outdoors – 112' IF 0.86 / HR 132

    June 2 – outdoors – 200' IF 0.82 / HR 129

    June 3 – outdoors – 122' IF 0.78 / HR 118



    April 14 – indoors – 120' IF 0.87 / HR 155

    April 15 – indoors – 128' IF 0.82 / HR 150

    April 22 – indoors – 128' IF 0.81 / HR 145

    April 28 – indoors – 120' IF 0.88 / HR 146

    April 29 – indoors – 120' IF 0.87 / HR 144

    May 6 – indoors – 120' IF 0.80 / HR 130



    No question the indoor rides keep the HR higher at any given IF. And I think the consistency of that indoor HR – sustained high HR for long periods with no break – is a huge fitness-booster.



    There is probably some acclimatization benefit too…the trainer experience is certainly less pleasant than riding 20mph in low-70's temps!



    And the mental toughness aspect is important too – I do these in the bars, and I make the z3 sets really long…for example:

    - 120' with ABP MS as 45'(4'), 30'(4'), 30': http://connect.garmin.com/activity/168517087

    - 130' with ABP MS as 45'(4'), 45'(4'), 15': http://connect.garmin.com/activity/170870465

    - 120' with ABP MS as 60'(3'), 45': http://connect.garmin.com/activity/173064911



    (the last one I assure you was BRUTAL)



    Anyway, perhaps you all have different takes on this. If so, I'd be interested to hear them.



    Cheers,

    Matt

  • Posted By Matt Aaronson on 11 Apr 2013 04:12 PM


    Essentially I was trying to validate the assertion that the trainer rides are better quality workouts.



    ...

    No question the indoor rides keep the HR higher at any given IF. And I think the consistency of that indoor HR – sustained high HR for long periods with no break – is a huge fitness-booster.

    ...


    There is probably some acclimatization benefit too…the trainer experience is certainly less pleasant than riding 20mph in low-70's temps!

    ...

    And the mental toughness aspect is important too –

    ...

    Anyway, perhaps you all have different takes on this. If so, I'd be interested to hear them.



    Cheers,

    Matt

    Interesting stuff, Matt.  Thanks for keeping this one going.   

    On mental toughness: I think it's a tie. But more importantly, the 'skill' of mental toughness isn't something that is passive, which is slowly absorbed by spending time in The Hurt.  Instead, I feel like it's what you do with your brain when you're in The Hurt: it's the techniques, tricks, strategies, visions, hallucinations ... whatever active mental schema you are deliberately practicing.  IOW, if I wanted passive mental toughness, I would just set the DVD player to "Gilmore Girls, Season 2" and ride for 5 hours ... and maninate my brain in Suffering.

    On acclimatization: I agree, and I think I have experienced adaptations for racing in the heat after dedicated blocks of indoor, no fan riding.   But if given the choice, I would not risk impairing the quality of a mid-week quality ride to acclimatize.  

    On better quality: Still undecided.   After your post, though, I'm asking the question framed around economy (narrowly, as it pertains to those who have a lower FTP indoors than out): again, assuming a watt indoors is a watt outdoors, but there is a different physiological response to these, why would someone ever choose the approach that is training at decreased economy?   Think of this hypothetical:  I (hypothetically) run 6:00 / mile at 80% LT on a track.  However, if I strap 5 pounds of butter to my waist (or wear a heatsuit, or do the run midday in 100% humidity in July, or whatever), I now run 7:00/miles at the same 80% LT.    My response to the two is the same, but am i getting better quality with the latter? 

             



     


  • Posted By Dave Tallo on 12 Apr 2013 09:44 AM


    assuming a watt indoors is a watt outdoors, but there is a different physiological response to these, why would someone ever choose the approach that is training at decreased economy?   Think of this hypothetical:  I (hypothetically) run 6:00 / mile at 80% LT on a track.  However, if I strap 5 pounds of butter to my waist (or wear a heatsuit, or do the run midday in 100% humidity in July, or whatever), I now run 7:00/miles at the same 80% LT.    My response to the two is the same, but am i getting better quality with the latter? 

    I'm not sure. I do think HR is a measure of your physiology and having it elevated higher for longer and without breaks has to mean something. But I get the point on a watt is a watt and if you are generating fewer watts then you are not working as hard.

  • Was thinking about this before it was even posted. I had made the decision that Wed ride will be inside and probably one of the the weekend rides. Probably the one with the Zone 4 stuff in it.
  • @ Brenda, you mean the 3-hour ride (if doing HIM plan)? That's tough. Whenever I'm forced to do that ride inside I shorten it. The Saturday ride is the one I really try to get done outside (not today, however...freezing in Chicago today!!)
  • I think this is a great thread. This is the first year i have done so much training indoors. I did the NOS and now the adv HIM and trainer rides simply kick my butt big time. It is obvious that the stress an indoor ride places on my body is much higher than what the metrics would indicate. I've had several Saturday or Sunday rides i am just not able to complete indoors (or if i do, it wreaks havoc for the next 3-4 days) whereas doing the same stuff outdoors feels much easier.

    With only 3 or 4 outdoor rides i did HIM California two weeks ago and had absolutely no clue how good or bad i was, turned out my biking was much better than i thought. So in other words, something is causing a big difference in physiological response and an indoor watt is definitely not the same as an outdoor watt for me. An indoor minute is not an outdoor minute, and an indoor TSS point is not the same as an outdoor TSS point.

    As to the mental advantage, it works both ways for me. Yes, beating the boredom and pushing hard indoors is a big advantage. On the other hand, not completing workouts, needing more recovery create more stress which isn't good.
  • I'm indoors for logistics/time savings reasons....the worst part is changing the rear tire once a week as i do not ride with my outdoor tire indoors on the trainer.
  • I was speaking of the we'd rides only....

  • Posted By Nate Parady on 13 Apr 2013 03:30 PM


    the worst part is changing the rear tire once a week as i do not ride with my outdoor tire indoors on the trainer.

    I assume you're using a powertap or this wouldn't be an issue. Two ideas for you:

    1. Crank-based powermeter and a dedicated indoor wheel. Expensive solution to the problem but honestly your life would improve dramatically...

    2. Get an indoor/outdoor tire. My did has a powertap and once the in-season starts he breaks out a $49 Bontrager Race Lite Hard-Case (http://www.bontrager.com/model/00443). Wire bead, 60tpi. Nothing wrong with training on that outdoors and the trainer won't chew it up too fast. And you can be sure it won't flat. With the wire bead it's a bitch to get on and off the rim so changing it before races is a pain, but honestly it's a great solution and a LOT easier than changing a tire multiple times a week.

  • I do most weekday rides indoors and weekend outdoors. Got tired of constantly swapping out tires (I use a dedicated trainer tire after learning the hard way that normal tires don't last very long on a trainer...), so I bought a cheap rear wheel that I use for the trainer only.  I figure I don't need anything fancy for my KK, and then all I need to do for the weekend is swap out rear wheel and voila!

  • I never swap tires, just ride on my trainer with my conti GP 4000S without any problems. Trainer has a soft gel roll though, it's not hungry for tires.
  • Yes I do have a PT...I like the idea of getting a heavy duty indoor outdoor tire....when the fatigue sets in the last thing I want to do is change my tire....

    Thanks
  • I'm curious--now that it's not so cool at night, how hot does it have to be before you see a power dropoff? Even with a fan, I find that I'm so hot that I just can't put out the same watts. The trainer, however, is a great alternative when it's too hot to go outside or too polluted (which unfortunately happened last year way more than I would have liked).
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