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Z1/LRP feels too slow

Long run calls for significant time at Z1/LRP, which is 8:52/mile for me according to the Daniels formula. This just feels way too slow, like I'm almost walking. Should I really be targeting the MP + 30" pace, or should I actually spend time running at 8:52/mi?

Comments

  • John-

    When it comes time to run your marathon off your bike it's truly not that slow. IMHO cont to run the way you have been/the way the plans written and after your RR's(race rehersals) see how you are feeling and adjust accordingly.

    It seems like coach P had written an excerpt after his Ironman Texas Run regarding heart rate/running but I can't find it. It was another good read and a diff take on the marathon.
  • We hear this every year, and then we read the race reports and the chatter has changed.
  • Running the easy runs too hard is probably my biggest mistake in training. It still feels easy but the subsequent workouts become much harder and much more taxing. My winter goal since I didn't have a set plan (while becoming a new dad) was to run the pace I'm supposed to. If Z1 is 9:30 then I run it and swallow my pride a little. Now that I've added back threshold pacing those workouts feel much better and doable. I'm not crashing at the end because I used up some of my mojo on easy runs. Just my observation.

    Running Z1 pace is really a mental exercise for me and it becomes rather taxing
  • Good responses. And I understand (from experience) that Z1 pace during the actual race is very different than training runs. I guess I was thinking that during training runs it would be better to run faster. Kind of like Rich's advice on swimming - if you want to learn how to swim fast, practice swimming faster. I think Sukhi had a post about this in the winter, where he said he never ran slowly during training because it was teaching him to...run slowly.
  • @ John you will learn to love that pace and wonder why I have to push so hard. It gets better when the heat kicks in.... NOT
  • The swimming analogy doesn't translate well to running since the impact is so much higher. image



    You should run your easy runs really easy. The speed at which you're embarrassed if people see you.



    The hard stuff should be hard.



    But what people end up doing, is running their easy stuff too hard, and hard stuff not hard enough. The fatigue will catch up to you if you push the easy runs. If you must, do a run/walk to bring the pace down.
  • Your Z1 is my Z3 pace!!!  

    That being said, I too find (my) Z1 pace quite easy. I view it as the "keep the body in motion and blood flowing" pace to complement the higher-speed paces where the major adaptations take place. The body needs rest in order to build. 

  • Running in Z1 is indeed supposed to feel easy, and I use my level of effort in Z1 to gauge how fatigued I am. If it feels easy, things are good. If I feel like I'm working just to keep up a Z1 pace in training, then probably means I'm fatigued, not well rested, etc.

    I totally understand how it can feel odd to run so "slowly" (at least it feels that way) though. Part of the reason why we do that is to build up durability since running as a relatively higher risk of injury. Running lots of Z1 miles doesn't necessarily make us faster, or at least it's not as efficient as lots of Z4 miles, but it gives us a solid level of durability that allows for more fast running without hurting ourselves.


  • Posted By Anson Lam on 11 Apr 2013 09:11 AM

    I totally understand how it can feel odd to run so "slowly" (at least it feels that way) though. Part of the reason why we do that is to build up durability since running as a relatively higher risk of injury. Running lots of Z1 miles doesn't necessarily make us faster, or at least it's not as efficient as lots of Z4 miles, but it gives us a solid level of durability that allows for more fast running without hurting ourselves.

    This.

    When I do a z1 run, I typically find myself slipping into somewhere between Z1 and Z2 because my HR @ Z1 seems insanely low, having gotten used to doing lots of Z3-Z5 work.  However, I usually have to remind myself of the point of the Z1 run - which is almost to go as slow as possible so as to still be running, but to make it last as long as possible to build up durability.

    We don't run a lot of slow miles here within EN, but we do have to build up durability somehow - we can do that via frequency and making sure to go at a snail's pace during certain workouts.  Something I'm still working on myself, admittedly.

     

     

  • All good comments here.  There is a lot of work in the plans so the consideration to run faster is a good as a self coached athlete to get a running boost.  If you are a strong runner or hit a plateau perhaps you can handle the extra work load.  The first consideration is effect on downstream workouts later this week and then overall fatigue level over you current plan. 

    Beyond that what is your ability to take in this extra work for the entire season.  For me if you are doing a early season race and something late in the year managing chronic fatigue and burnout are a real consideration. Transition week or managing of plans between races is key to a long season.  Also remember rest allows us to build up the body and you can't always go hard

    Finally remember the risk of adding in more intensity in running as the risk versus reward is higher in running than in cycling.

    Gordon 

     

  • I don't do a lot of z1 running and I'm trying to do more because I think my durabilitiy issues come from running to hard all the time. But I will say that below a certain pace my running form / stride is different and I think those different mechanics are probably not good. So I don't run slower than the point at which my gait is materially different.
  • I follow what Anson mentioned but do not consider z1 pace as strict as I do z2/34 (those I really try to match as accurately as possible). I do recovery intervals based on RPE so sometimes slower than z1, sometimes faster. Same with longer z1 periods during the long Thursday runs - especially when running outdoors I found myself running somewhere between z1 and z2 and 'aim' for z1 but let RPE decide if it's really worth running THAT slow. 

    The opposite also happens especially when I'm really tired and have to run indoors on the treadmill, sometime running at z1 just feels much harder and I allow myself to run 30"/mile slower, or I will 'build up' towards z1 pace. 

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