Swapping out racing wheels on my bike

Brad Marcus

Recently got a new set of Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon Clinchers - couldn't resist a very good deal that came my way. Since this is my 3rd year in the sport, I'm definitely a "learn as I go" person. So, I installed rim tape, tubes, tires, and cassettes without a hitch. I plan on using the Zipps almost exclusively for races, but obviously wanted to try them out once or twice ahead of time. Here is my question:

Is there an easy way for me swap in/out training and racing wheels? I need to change and adjust brake pads, and dérailleur seems to need adjustment as well. I have a Cervelo P2 and on which I have the stock 12-25 cassette. However, I decided to go with a 12-27 on the Zipps...not a huge change, but a little different.

Do I need a larger chain or is it merely an adjustment on the derailleur? My first attempt didn't go well (brakes were rubbing wheels when spinning and lots of clicking in some gears), and I am nervous about breaking my new equipment so I aborted and went back to training wheels for now. I'm just looking for the easiest way to go about swapping back and forth. Thanks in advance!

gamb

I run the same cassette on both sets of wheels just to avoid derailleur adjustments. The big PITA with my Zipps is the brake adjustments because the ZIPPS are so much wider than my training wheels. The pad swap isn't really fun on my transition either, don't know about the P2

I don't think you need a larger chain though. 25-27 isn't that big of a deal

Does the P2 have the little lever on the brakes that rotates to loosen the brakes and remove the wheels? You could just move it 1/2 way or something to adjust the brakes. I do that on my road bike when I'm lazy and it seems to work fine

the black lever on the left is what I'm talking about. I don't have this on my transition but don't know about the P2

GMAN 19030

Brad,

You shouldn't need to swap chains.  There's hardly a difference is chain stretch going from the 25 to the 27.

The RD is going to need to be adjusted.

I'd recommend one of two things for the brakes:

1. Always keep them at the setting for your widest wheels.

2. Buy some barrel adjuster brakes.

cgres123

Brad,

Another thought is ride your " race wheels all the time ". I paid bucks for mine too and since I paid for them I will ride them into the dirt/beat the shit out of them. You only live once bro and they will out live you anyway so might as well have fun with your toys.

John Withrow

I've gone from 11-21 to 11-28 Cassettes and never had to change my chain length, so don't worry about that at all. I also barely if at all need to adjust my RD if the wheels have similar hub widths (i.e. this will be different if you're going from a Powertap hup to a non-PT hub).

DEFINITELY do NOT use the same brake pads for your FC404s and your training wheels. I have found that the easiest way to swap the pads is to have a whole set of separate pads that have their own metal holders on them. I actually write on the holders with a Sharpee Marker "ALU" so I don't EVER mix up the aluminum braking surface pads with the Carbon surface pads. Depending on what brake calipers you have on your P2, you are likely to need them at their widest setting to fit the FC404. (I had SRAM Rival brakes on my P3, but the same is true I think for the FSA or Ultegra brakes). You can move the washers on the pad holders on the Carbon pads to the outsides of the calipers (and for your training pads put the washers on the inside). This will move the pads closer in for the training wheels and further out for the FC wheels. For me, to set the FC pads I simply loosened the allen bolt that holds the brake cable to the caliper and the caliper will open to it's widest possible setting. Then make sure that the barrell adjuster (the little black plastic thing you can see at the top of the picture that Jamie dropped in) is screwed all the way in (or maybe it's out, I sometimes get mixed up with this and it takes me 2 tries to get it right). Then when you tighten that allen screw onto the brake cable, your brake should work fine for your Carbon FC wheel. If your brake is too wide, squeeze it in just a little bit with your hand before you tighten the screw so it's at its correct width.

I've also found to get the brake pad seated properly on the braking surface, a little trick is to leave the bolt that holds the pad onto the caliper snug, but just a little bit loose. Then squeeze the brake lever and make sure the pad is firmly in the right spot and at the correct angle and as you continue to squeeze the brake lever, tighten the bolt all the way that holds the pad holder onto the caliper. This might feel a bit like playing twister, but once you do it a few times it actually gets pretty easy.



Now if you're lucky, the process to put your training wheels back on is simple. Remove the Race wheel. Remove the race pad holders. Install the Training Wheel Pad holders that are marked "ALU" (but don't tighten all the way). Put on the training wheel. Turn the barrell adjuster on the caliper all the way and watch the caliper tighten in as much as you need (mine literally take the whole length of that adjuster tube/screw thing). Now squeeze the brake lever, fine tune the placement of the pad and tighten the pad holder screws. Done.



That was a lot of typing, so if any of that wasn't clear, feel free to ask more specific questions...

Satish Punna

Sorry for the thread diversion, but I agree with DM.  I plan on leaving my 404FC on my TT bike full time.  They cost too much and look too cool to be left sitting in my basement 99% of the time.  I will change out the tires and tubes for races however. 

John Withrow

I'm different than DM and Satish. I want to feel like I'm dressing up for the big dance when I put my race wheels on. Makes those races extra special... I put on my race kit with my areo helmet and my race wheels and it puts me in the right mental place to rock-it! Swapping my wheels and pads has become a bit of a ritual for me before races and it helps me to flip that mental switch to "Game On" status.

And I get the added benefit of knowing that if I hit a massive pothole on a normal ride or a car opens their door in front of me that I'm only gonna destroy a $300 set of training wheels instead of a $2,000 set of race wheels...

Al Truscott

Into the fray... I have only one set of wheels for my TT bike, Zipp 404s. I am replacing the front after seven years, not because of damage, but because Zipp finally came out with a Firecrest version for 650s. So thatt's well north of 10,000 miles, never an issue, including the following incidents:

- Hitting several potholes at least three or more inches deep
- numerous cattle guards and other nonsense in Colorado
- Biggest of all, ramming crash test dummy like @ 25 mph into the rear of a pickup going 3 mph. The steering tube, fork, and front triangle of the frame had to be replaced, the wheel didn't even go out of true, much less suffer any damage.

I get the warrior paint preparation mentality for races. For me, I get that from putting a wheel cover on the rear, and racing tires on the rims.

Brad Marcus

Great responses by everyone! Hadn't really considered the idea of keeping the Zipps on the tt bike fulltime....but now you got me thinking. Something to ponder for sure. Considering I just did my bike test and my chain got thrown off the big ring after 1 minute into my FTP test, this may add fuel to the fire as whether or not I want to mess with limit screws. Thanks for all the feedback...I'll let you know what I decide!

William Jenks

John - regarding the brake pads.... what about these yellow pads (forget the brand) that specifically claim to be appropriate for both Carbon and Aluminum surfaces? (Give them a very good wipe when going from Al to C to get rid of any grit.)

John Withrow

WJ, I actually do use those Yellow Swisstop pads on my FC808s.  They work great, but they cost like $40 and one set will last me for many many yrs.  If you've ever taken a very close look at a brake pad that has been used extensively on an aluminum brake track (I have done this hundreds of times now), you will see that most of the time, you are right in that you can simply rub the grime/dirt/little stones off of them and they look as good as new.  However, I have also seen many a time where there is a little metal shard or tiny ball like thing embedded down in the rubber of the pad.  I'm not sure if this is from the road or the brake track or the pad itself, but it's definitely harder and a bit shiny.  Often you can pick these out, but sometimes you cannot. My point is simply that I do not want this sharp/rough thing pressed with force into my carbon braking surface while my wheel is spinning at 20+ mph. 'If' that could ruin my $2k wheels and I can avoid it with a simple step, I will certainly try to avoid that. And once you have swapped these pads a few times, it's really very simple. It literally takes me less than 5 mins to do the front and the back. To put this in context though, I am extremely anal in my bike prep before an important race. I clean my chain, take my cassette off to clean it, clean every spec of dirt and grime off my frame, etc, etc, etc. so my bike prep generally takes a couple of hours, but it is my hobby and I enjoy it. And generally my bike prep is 2x most people because I also have a wife who does the same races and she has zero interest in doing actual maintenance.

So I simply swap the pads as 'preventative maintenance'. Is it necessary, I'm not sure. Is it a simple and cheap way to avoid the possible risk, absolutely.

As an aside, i might be the wrong comparable... My old 'pre IM' hobby was driving fast cars... To this day, I still change my own oil in said car because I'm afraid the dealership might screw it up...

One other thing, in my last ride a week before IMLou in 2011, I hit a large pothole coming down a steep and bendy hill at about 25mph with my 'race wheels' on. I even had my disc cover on to test everything out. I cracked the carbon braking surface which created a bulge on my rear Powertap wheel and I rushed to replace the wheels in the week before the race. Granted this was an older tubular torroidal shaped Zipp 404, so the thin edge and older technology breaking surface was probably much weaker than the new FC404 clinchers, but my n=1 was enough for me to use my carbon wheels sparingly. @Al, if I were to guess, your older Zipps were either tubulars, or more likely had an aluminum rim with a carbon faring as this is how most carbon clinchers were made until a couple of yrs ago. That aluminum ring made them almost as durable as a regular training wheel. I'm not convinced that the new carbon clinchers are as strong. And even if they are, I know several people who have taco'ed aluminum rims from crashes or curbs. And i'v seen other aluminum rims with dings or dents somewhere on the braking surface or neat the edge, on Carbon surfaces those same impacts 'could' cause cracks instead.

Not to scare you too much though, people use carbon wheels for cyclocross and mountain bikes and on cobblestones in Paris-Roubaix so the things are damn strong in general. But I'm doing a road bike race this weekend and there are 10 dirt and gravel road sections and my FC808s are staying at home...