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Swim T-pace RPE

I'm sure something like this has been asked in the past, but it occurred to me today that finding a T-pace for swimming based on RPE is quite different than for run or bike, and thus it's kind of a whole new world to me at the moment - so I'm curious what others have to say.  Unfortunately, it's a long winded question, but here it goes:

Until this morning, I've never done a swim test.  A few weeks ago, I started doing EN swim workouts from the GF plan, and guesstimated stuff like race pace, T-pace, all-out pace, etc.  So with this week being test week in the GF plan, I figured that since I recently reintroduced my body to swimming, I mine as well see what my T-pace is.  I did just that, doing 1000 yds this morning (actually, 1100 yards because I misread 950 yds as 850 and thought I had an extra 150 to do).

Anyhow - at the end of any bike or run test, I'm exhausted.  However, with swimming, I've found that if I get exhausted, my form suffers and I slow down.  So as a counter to that, I tried to keep a steady but reasonably hard effort that I knew I'd be able to sustain.  In other words, not killing myself.  The end result was that I finished not feeling all that fatigued - not nearly as much as with a bike or run test.

Thats when it occurred to me - while I could have put more effort in, would it have been worth it?  Where is the line where the amount of effort and speed gained from that effort is cancelled out by reduced form efficiency?

I know those questions aren't easy to answer, and obviously individualistic - but I guess if I had to distill my overall question to a single sentence, it would be this:  How does one know if they put in the appropriate amount of effort during a swim test when going beyond that effort may actually slow you down because of compromised form?  With a bike or run, the answer is simple - if you haven't puked into a bucket, you didn't try hard enough.  But with swimming, because form is so much more critical, it presents a whole new series of metrics to contend with.  The only guide I could find was the swimming wiki entry, where it says to go at a sustainable hard effort - and while I think I did that, I feel like there is some room for interpretation in there.  Also, I'm sure it is something you refine after doing the test a few times - if that is the answer, thats fine.  Just curious.

Comments

  • Ryan - you'll find out the answer to your question soon enough, when you start applying your T Pace to structured swim intervals. To state the obvious, if you can't hold the pace for all the intervals in a set, @ the rest interval prescribed, then you overcooked the TT (doubtful). OTOH, if you find it somewhat "easy" to hold T pace through the set, or can even go faster with each interval without undo strain, or have enough left to drop your time by several seconds in the last few intervals, then you undercooked it.

    Having swum and done interval workout sets of various effort levels and speeds for over 50 years now, I can pretty much dial in my pace for any given distance and/or rest interval within less than 1 sec/100 without even thinking, showing that one CAN train one's brain to correlate swimming RPE with time. Don't know how long that might take for someone just starting out, though.

  • Ok, thanks Al. I had a feeling it'd be something I'd end up determining over time - it was just one of those shocker moments when I was trying to mentally sort out the post-test feeling of a swim vs run or bike.

    I've actually surprised myself in my workouts so far - for not having swum since August, it only took 3-4 workouts to start dialing in to a correlation between RPE and pace. Not quite within 1 sec/100 yds resolution - more like 3-4 seconds - but it's a start image
  • Ryan: This is a good question, with good rationale. I agree with Al. I have had- and continue to have- this same question across all of my disciplines, especially in the pool. As a new adult swimmer, so much of the discipline is volume and muscle memory over time, and then you just wake up and reach pace enlightenment like AT. 

    For me, I applied what I learned from Training and Racing with a Power Meter (Coggin/Allen)? Have you read it? You should! It's arcane and complex, but a classic must-read for power athletes. And chock full of genius as far as how to train on the bike. I pick it up every off-season.



    Somewhere in there, the authors address this same question for the bike/trainer. And they say something very much to the effect AT is articulating. Which is basically to break your session into defined intervals- no problem for ENers!- maybe it's defined by your Training Plan, maybe by you (400's, 500's, 600's, etc), and at a point where your overall interval time drops below a certain established threshold- say 5 sec/100m, 10 sec/100m, etc.- for an interval, you're done with the MS of the workout. Don't do one more. Go home. Cool down. Any additional work will put you at risk for junk mileage, excess fatigue and/or potential injury.



    You get the idea, which is that your ability to sustain more consistent intervals across a training phase will increase over time if you're doing the workouts, and you will gradually add additional intervals, or increase your pace based on your tests. Or both. Maybe you determine that once you can do 10 straight swim intervals of 200m within 5 sec, you then reset your speed/pace goal, fall back down to 5-6 intervals, and build again at the faster speed until you hit ten solid intervals. Forever and ever, amen..,

  • Excellent feedback. I woud like to add that you could just do another 1000k TT, applying what you've learned about pacing, etc to go faster. Very, very unlikely that will affect anything downstream of the workout so not a problem to just do it again whenever.
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