Has anyone tried UCAN for Endurance sports?
Given my recent n=1 experimentation with a Gluten-Free lifestyle, and my ban on "Recreational Sugars", I am buying into the whole "anti Insulin Spike" mentality. I have also experimented with "no fueling" any workouts this winter as an attempt to teach my body to burn more fat and not be dependent on me constantly shoveling sugars into my bloodstream to fuel my workouts (or my life)... Over a couple of months, I worked up to a 3.5 hour trail run with no breakfast and nothing but water during the run and never had any crashes or bonks. I was stronger at the end of that run than the people with me that ate the whole time...
So the concept of UCAN sounds interesting. I was just wondering if anyone has tried it and if so, how did you like it?
http://www.generationucan.com/aboutus.html
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Spoke with one of the reps about this last year at IMLP - sounds VERY interesting. I too like the idea of the lessened peaks and valleys and because of this you only need to fuel with UCAN every 90 minutes... Interested in hearing any reports by those who are seriously using.
I've not had any problems other than the idea that it shouldn't be used with other sugar sources. I tend to get hungry or not time my pre ride/run nutrition quite right. I rode 2 hours today and took in a third of a power bar in the last 30 minutes.
I don't know if that helps...since I haven't really used it as they want you too or for any really long rides yet.
I was actually able to get ahold of the UCAN folks. As many of you already know, I race to raise money for my charity, ReserveAid http://reserveaid.org/get-involved/
UCAN gave me a discount code that will give you 10% off on all orders. Additionally, they will donate 10% of the price of every order that uses this code to ReserveAid. So if you want to buy some, use the Discount Code: RESERVEAID
They would also be willing to do a webinar for the team if you think it might be useful. Something to keep in mind...
Thanks for posting the discount code!
I am trying to figure out if I just want to continue with Perform (kiss principle) in part because my first IM I didn't have gut issues, and in part do to costs and HAVING to stop at SN's if using UCAN. Torn.
I tried it mid ride a couple of times and just couldn't stomach it. I like my mid workout drink to also be a bit "refreshing" and the UCAN is a bit chalky and stuck in my mouth. Add to that the Sucralose and it was a deal breaker. The unflavored version doesn't have the artificial sweeteners in it, but also doesn't taste 'good'.
I went back to Infinit for my in-ride nutrition...
I love the idea of burning fat for fuel, no spikes in blood sugar, less actually fueling to think about. Ultimately though, I want to toe the line at IMAZ with no gut issue worries. IM is a LONG day with a lot that can go wrong...one less (BIG) thing to worry about on race day would be huge for me and help me race to my potential ... which I really didn't get to do in either of my A races last year due to gut issues.
I've been doing the math, and if I figured it right (that's a big if lol) it may even be less expensive than using traditional sugar products. Except for on race day of course, as IM won't have UCAN on course. That was one of my concerns.
I race an oly this weekend, then drop into the half IM plan. I'll keep you all posted as to how my tummy gets by with using only UCAN.
My reason for switching to UCAN was that I am a hard core sugar addict and I find sports nutrition a huge trigger for me. I also am vegan so I find what I have used in teh past not only left me craving more sugars, but contained whey and other dairy derivatives, which left me with headaches, hindering my future workouts.
I have now gotten back into training and I just did a pre-run of the IMWI course this weekend feeling AMAZING the whole time.
I rocked
a 1 mile swim in lake Monona
a 4 hour bike on the IM WI course riding all the hills (and even the hills that they say are not hills) in the heat of Saturday AFTER the 1 mile swim
a 10k run in the high heat and humidity of Sunday
all on 6 scoops of unflavored UCAN and 1/2 tube of NUUN watermelon tabs consumed over the 2 days total.
Being dairy-free I do not use the protein enhanced versions, but rather mix it with my preferred protein (Vega Sport vanilla) and then make that into the shake that I consume at o-dark-thirty like I would ahead of an IM or Half IM race. My breakfast a few hours later was a PRO BAR meal replacement bar.
We did the mile swim in Lake Monona in choppy waters and I felt amazing. No stomach or saliva issues. Came back to get ready for the bike and consumed a piece of whole wheat dry toast while loading up the car, and then consumed ~1 scoop of unflavored UCAN in a water bottle before my ride (and some of it at the start of the ride).
I then rode 4 hours on the IM course, with a concetrated paste in a flask containing ~ 4 scoops of UCAN. I consumed ~ 3 of these servings (I had made a 5 hour flask, only rode 4 so I was right on mark). I supplemented with bottles of nuun electrolyte enhanced water. I had NO issues. (well aside from the paste in teh flask seizing up and blocking the opening so I had to stop and unscrew the top and squeeze it in every time. Thinking I needed to mix with less water and fill the flask less full. Will try again!)
I never felt out of fuel and my stomach felt amazing all day long... it felt clean. The best part was that I felt amazing afterwards and the following days and following workouts as well. The only thing that I noticed was some stomach sloshing when I took in the nuun. Looking back I think that I had too much water to eletrolyte ratio (1 tab per bottle when I maybe should have done 2 tabs per bottle or even more) so it may have delayed the water moving out of my stomach. Whenever I took a swig of my concentrated UCAN paste, my stomach cleared right up.
I am going to train with UCAN/NUUN/Salt Tabs all in for my half iron in hot Miami this November. As Trish mentioned, I did get stomach hungry a bit so I need to find something that I can nosh on to quiet it down, or just train my stomach better.
I will keep posting in here as my training goes. :-)
I've basically resigned to using it for pre-workout only. Definitely helps. I no longer carry any fuel for workouts under 2-3 hours unless specifically practicing race-day nutrition.
I've listened to a couple webinars, and talked with a pro who used it exclusivly at IMTX, then with low sugar gels and bars during IMCda. She felt Ucan alone wasn't enough for her in Texas, so she changed it up a bit and was pleased with results. Of course, she's a pro and pushing harder, but we shall see. After the half, I may start to add more food on the bike in my IM training.
So I spoke with my dietician as well as with the RD from UCAN directly and they both said that it is fine to supplement UCAN with low sugar whole foods, or sugar free protein bars.
I asked if my staples - nuts and seeds - would be OK and they both said that natural almond butter is a good supplement to add in to help curb hunger without impacting the effectiveness of UCAN. I always carry a packet or two of Justin's Almond Butter with me just in case, so now I know to go ahead and rip it open if I feel hungry!
ETA: I use the plain UCAN as I do not mind the chalky texture and like yucca root anyhow, so I am used to the blandness. This allows for me to use whatever hydrator and whole foods I want without flavor crossing. Since the plain is without sodium or potassium I make sure to take in 1000mg of sodium across my other foods per hour.
I am interested in seeing how Trish felt during Steelhead yesterday! She sure tore up the course!
I've used Ucan now for 2 oly's a century and a 70.3 and my daily training. About 2 months. Both the oly's were great and no real major issues during any training sessions.
On the century I had no issues other than a bit belly hungry. I ate only peanut butter and turkey at the lunch and passed up all the white foods and yummy cookies.
The race Sunday, I used 2 packs with protien and and egg for breakfast, 1 serving of lemon 30' before racing. On the bike I had 3 servings of rasberry concentrated in a 24 oz bottle at 30', 1:30 and about 2:20. I took the last one early as I had to toss the bottle from my rear cage at the last aid station for my flying dismount. New cage and dorky racer. Better safe than sorry!
On the run I had my 5oz concentrated "paste" at about mile 5. Where I also took a potty break. Should have gone earlier as my bloaty feeling was less after that. I took a couple salt tabs and a roctane gu at mile 10 or so. I chatted up a pro regarding her use in two IM's this year and she added bars and gu in her second IM. Suprisingly some gels have only 2 grams of sugar. Thats why I took the gu late...I figured, what could it hurt at that point in the race.
So, I never felt "belly" hungry during the race, but never felt snappy either. I don't think it was a fueling issue though. My gut was a burbling mess after about 30 minutes post race...I couldn't eat for several hours post race. I was very bloated and blah feeling. That's my UCAN update!
I've spent this year over hauling my nutrition and questioning the traditional approach of using sugar. Our bodies have become sugar dependent over the past 4-5 generations due to our agriculture manufacturing and food products. TO break this pattern I went through 4 weeks of a ketogenic diet and stayed in ketosis for that entire time. I also went through a process of cold thermogenesis to break the brown fat around organ tissues that enhances our ability to utilize fat as an energy source, as opposed to just sugar.
Short answer is that 1 molecule of sugar = 36 ATP, 1 molecule of fat = 146 ATP (the math is a no brainer... 10 carbon fatty acid will get 78 ATPs and for a 16 carbon FA - 129 ATP and for an 18 carbon fatty acid 146 ATPs) Cold thermogenesis allows this cellular pathway to open up and stop the glucose dependancy/addiction for energy.
I've used Ucan (plain, no additives), ENergy 28 liquid organic shots and Master amino acid pattern (absorbs in 23 minutes) while racing now, had a 22 min. PR in my last Half Iron and I'm using the same protocol for IMCanada next weekend.
Sugar works, but sugar is not healthy (in large quantities). I decided that if I wanted to stay in this sport I'd have to find a way to do it that also increased my health and well-being for decades to come. That was the motivation for my switch. I'll keep you all posted on how this goes for a full IM. Note: I will have some Bonk breaker bars during the race, because I know I still need some sugar, just not as much as I used to consume. I always use coke for the last few miles of the run too... So far, no bloating, no pain, no feeling like I need to brush my teeth half way through a long training day or race.
At a certain level, starch and "sugar" are the same thing...carbohydrates...at least in terms of "nutrition". Yes, the spike thing matters, and yes the digestion thing matters. But ultimately the number of calories from table sugar vs. starches isn't magic. If you "need" XYZ number of calories, then that's what you need...although it might be a lot better to get them in a smoother dose.
The glycemic index of a product is a measure of how fast the sugars are digested and released as glucose into the blood stream. You can look up the glycemic index of various things and compare them to one another. (Slower digesting and less spike is associated with a LOWER glycemic index.) Glucose is 100. Sucrose (table sugar) is around 65, and white bread is closer to 100 that sucrose! Maltodextrin is also pretty high.
I am bothered by the ridiculous non-scientific name "super starch". They won't tell you what it is...but it can't be anything very exotic because it's a corn product. Here's their white paper: http://generationucan.com/pdf/technical-breakthrough-sports-innovation.pdf They talk about a small sponsored study and how a low glycemic index product should work but they won't tell you what it is. That's, and the combination of the fuzzy name raise red flags with me as to how seriously to take their claims. All this said, if it keeps your tummy happy, then it's all good. The general idea seems fine....I just wish they wouldn't fall into the "supplement pseudoscience" trap.
I'm not defending or supporting them, but their claim is a little different than your argument. It's not exactly about the "XYZ calories" that you are ingesting by consuming said product. They "theory" is that if you have those high glycemic index products (like the maltodextrose based stuff for example) that your body will have a big insulin spike and you are conditioning your body's cells to burn primarily sugar, diminishing (or delaying) its "fat burning ability". What they claim is that they contain less calories but don't cause the same response by your body so your body still simultaneously uses it's own fat supplies to generate the energy needed to work out. (depending less on the sugar drip you would otherwise supply externally)
I think this is kind of what Sukhi was alluding to above. He took somewhat drastic measures to retrain his body to burn his own fat sources in lieu of simply burning sugar products that he was cramming into his body while working out. I experimented a lot with training while "fasted" this outseason and it was amazing how long it took before the "bonk" came (if at all) once I had retrained my muscles (and mind) that this was okay.
As far as the "supplement pseudoscience" trap goes... I think you'd be hard pressed to find a commercially available supplement or fuel source that doesn't use a similar trap.
So I guess I am William's camp - based on my recollection of Skiba and Coggan etc.
Btw, I am away from home for the weekend so I can't check.
There are several discussions/debates that this already is or could inspire:
1) is burning sugar only even bad for you
2) are these so called 'super starches' even any different than regular maltodextrose based nutrition.
3) can we influence the amount of our own fat that our bodies utilize
4) what is the intensity level that it is no longer appropriate to not supplement with something faster like sugar (IM intensity, HIM intensity, OLY intensity, VO2 work, etc.)
5) does duration of workout effect this math? (30min vs 11 hrs)
6) how does it taste? Effect our GI systems, etc.
6) I'm sure I missed several...
Great Discussion here!
@JW... Great explanations!
It's been an area of research and personal experimentation for me over the past year. After reading countless articles on how harmful sugar is I knew I had to change things up, not for racing faster, but to just make this sport, healthier. Here's a list from Dr. Mercola on 100 ways sugar harms your health.
A recent lecture I heard from Dr. Tim Noakes (author of Lore of Running and Nobel prize winner), he challenged old paradigms in exercise physiology. He went on about how we're killing our bodies with the sugar intake and how electrolytes were not based on scientific merit, but instead sports marketing companies such as Gatorade. He also spoke about the future of greater levels of sports performance would be based on fat adapted athletes. I kept all this to myself, and ran a personal experiment over the past 8 months taking my body through some very extreme physiological adaptations. On the other side I've become a fat adapted athlete. WHat the heck does this mean???
It simply means that at much higher intensity levels, my body has learned to use fat for energy, making me far more efficient. Another fat adapted athlete is Michael Phelps, perhaps you've heard of him... : ) Does a fat adapted athlete still need sugar... absolutely, but at a fraction of consumption levels. Again, you only get 34 ATP from 1 molecule of sugar and as many as 146 ATP from 1 molecule of fat. In the end ATP is ATP and that's what powers the cell to perform work. Of course we're not talking about fats from McDonalds, but instead avocados, coconut oil, MCT oil, etc, etc...
The science is new and challenges conventional thinking and that makes it difficult to accept. I was in the same boat, so I kept my journey private over the past year between my wife and I. Products such as UCAN and VESPA support the "fat as fuel model". At the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, the woman Gold Medalist, Naoko Takahashi was the first runner to go public with just using VESPA as nutrition for the entire race and showing this new science actually works in high level sports.
Now I'm no Olympian, but several weeks ago I raced a HIM. I raced the exact race 12 months earlier so it was great to see a comparison. Keep in mind I'm a better athlete today than I was 1 year ago. But I only raced with UCAN, VESPA and Energy 28 liquid mixed in with the UCAN to give it some taste (I use plain because it has no sugar or artificial sweeteners).
My results:Swim was the same 32mins, Bike was 2:32 (10 mins faster from 2012), and my run was 1:23 (13 mins faster from 2012, (clearly I never faded). Final time 4:31, a HIM PR of 23 mins. Here's the kicker... I only consumed 350 calories for the entire race in 2013 (78 calories/hr), compared to 950 calories (195 calories/hr) of stereotypical race nutrition in 2012.
So in the end, the new science has proven to be correct after all, at least for me. I no longer carb load (450 calorie pre-race meal tops me up) and have to consume copious amounts of sugar for sustained energy. This has also been confirmed with all my long training rides and runs. I guess in the end it all comes down to the individual. You can just race with the traditional approach and race well and race fast. But as Dr. Noakes so eloquently explained, it's coming at a cost for long term health. Personally, I feel strongly that consuming high levels of simple sugars are not the best choice for long term health and vitality (tons of science to support this too). That was my primary source of motivation to make the switch.
Hey John and Sukhi — I totally accept that nutrition is very individualistic and therefore I would never try and change your fuelling strategies.
However, I feel I should point out that, as far as I am aware, the exercise physiology literature (eg Astrand and Rodahl, Textbook of Work Physiology, 1970, page 460) suggests the only way to change the fat vs carbohydrate mix of fuel at a given intensity of exercise, is to train at or near your FTP/Zone 4.
Also, nutritionists strongly recommend that you fully fuel each work out (see CoreDiet etc).
Just sayin..
I was wondering if anyone on EN has any 'real world' experience with UCAN to share.
I started with UCAN last year around July and really like it.
A bit about my eating ... I am basically vegetarian (not vegan, just no meat), gluten free, very low dairy, no processed foods, avoid added sugar, no soda/alcohol/candy ... I also only eat once per day and have for years. I say that to say, I may have been somewhat fat adapted when I started UCAN.
UCAN works very well for me as a training and racing fuel. I follow the directions of 1 scoop before, and 1 scoop every 60 minutes during events over 90 minutes. I add some real food calories (ProBar, BonkBreaker, date rolls, energy bites ... UCAN has a bar now but i've not tried it) as needed.
I mix the number of scoops I need for the event in one bottle and take shots at 60 minute intervals. I haven't mastered the 'gel for the run' concept yet. I do the last shot off the bike in T2 and use normal gels for the end of the run if needed.
Anyway, hoping this might be useful to others using UCAN and wondering if there was other experience on the team to learn from