Tires & tubes for racing & training on flashpoint 60's
I have a pair of flashpoint 60's arriving tomorrow. I'll use them for training and racing, and was wondering what tires and tubes to get. Do I get the same tires and tubes for both racing and training, or buy two sets and switch? Before I got this bike, I had a bike with 650 wheels, so my choices were limited. I always used Michelin pro race tires and butyl tubes. Looking at the tire reviews, michelin still seems pretty close to the top, but maybe there's somethig better. Latex tubes also seem to save some watts, so maybe that's a good idea too. What I can't see from the information on bike tech review is how anything would match up with my wheels, or how easy tires are to get on and off - never had a flat in a race, but you never know.
Comments
Training: Conti Gatorskins with Kenda 80mm butyl tubes
Racing: Vittoria Open EVO CX 320TPI with latex tubes and value extenders
I had zero flats on the training tires in over 3000 miles and the race tires also worked out very well for me. I used to use Michelin pro race tires, there was nothing wrong with them, I just prefer the Vittoria's.
If you really want to be aero with those wheels you should go with 20 or 21 mm tires, but then you bring up the risk of getting a flat. Also both the Vittoria and Michelins are a pain in the ass to change, but if you use a very thin rim strip and practice it does get easier.
The evo CX matt mentioned roll well, so do the zipp tangente's. You want latex tubes for racing. For training it really does not matter much. I tend to buy what is cheap on probikekit. Flats are more a function of what you run over rather than the tires [unless you live in somewhere with thorns like az]. Have fun with the cool new wheels.
First of all, it is great that you recognize the need for different tires for racing and training. That's the key to stay flat-free.
Second, for racing, I would go with zipp tangente in the front (where there is less chance for flats) and something more durable in the back like Conti GP 4000S or Micheline Pro Race.
The Vittoria/Zipp/Veloflex are great tires in terms of rolling resistance and suppleness BUT they tend to get more flats than Conti or Michelin so IMHO, it's not worth the risk
Latex Tubes are great choice - better rolling resistance, suppleness etc but remember they lose air over night so you must air your tires the morning of the race.
I personally use Tubular tires for racing - Conti GP 4000 but will change the front tire to Zipp next time around
It is really hard to draw any conclusions about which tires are more flat prone than others. All of the "data" on it tends to be n=1. Lets face it if you run through a bunch of broken glass you are going to get a flat. CRR data is not really open for debate however. There is no reason to have any tire that is not on the first page unless you want to give up a lot of watts. Good tires and tubes are a silly thing not to have. You have to buy them anyway, get fast ones.
http://www.biketechreview.com/tires...g_rev8.pdf
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2268811;
Another vote for the Vittoria Open Corsa. I have had zero problems with them. I also run on Flashpoint 60's.
Very good resource...and a civil discussion about a topic that tends to go sideways fast in other forums
I mostly just enjoy the entertainment factor over "there"
I saw this list some time ago and could not believe the difference in the watts you can give up on tire selection. I now know the full effect since training with power over the last 16 weeks.
If you are on the top of page one you shoud get close to 12 watts/tire vs 14 at the bottom. How hard did you work for that extra 5 watts this OS don't give up that and more with bad tire selection. As has been mentioned stick to the first page and I'd push that as high up the list as you can with latex tubes.
The only other issues you have identified is the difficulty of changing the tire and this is rim specific but typically the 20's and 21's are harder than the 23's.
Oh yes I have read to stick with butyl tubes for replacement if you flat as the latex tubes do not hold the CO2 well.
Gordon
I don't see much reason why anyone who knows better not to race tires from the top 10-15. Some of those are notoriously fragile but the RXL Pro is reliable as well as the Mich.
I run butyl tubes in my training wheels...cheaper. Always carry butyl as spares, even during races. Latex tubes are prone to pinch flats if you aren't careful when mounting the tire.
These are the only one I even know of....
http://www.trisports.com/michelin-a...-tube.html
http://www.probikekit.com/display.p...26%20Tubes
Here a a few more:
http://www.google.com/products?q=mi...n&aq=f
I used the michelin ones last season that they worked great, however they do not have removable value cores. I have heard of other latex tubes with removable cores but have never actually found them available anywhere.
I also like the Michelin. I solved the valve issue with Problem Solvers Valve Extender, which simply threads on top of the tube's valve.
http://directbicycleparts.com/page....ent=PU4860
Hi Guys,
just wondering what are the advantages for going latex for the tubes. Is it weight? or something else? How big of a difference does it make? I guess free speed is free speed (well I guess you do have to pay for it with money), but just wondering since I have no idea about things like that.
Also, I started training with Gatorskin recently, I used to train and race Vittoria Rubino Slick and like it a lot. would switching to Open EVO CX 320TPI make a big difference? Oh yeah, and when should I switch over to race set up on tires? during the first race rehearsal? Do people switch the tires on and off for race rehearsals and then the race? I bet I am over thinking this, but was just wondering what do people do.
Thanks for the info.
The latex tubes reduce rolling resistance which gives you free speed, like you said. I think it is a few watts of a difference depending on what you are running now. I don't think the weight is all that different. Well worth the money in my opinion, just only use them for racing and make sure you pump them up right before the start of your race.
I also train on gatorskins and race on the Open EVO's and I can definitely feel a difference in the ride. I haven't rode on Vittoria Rubino.
For B races I switch to my race tires and tubes a day or two before the race and just get one ride in to make sure everything is good. For my A-race last year I bought new tires and put them on the day before the last race rehearsl and keep them on until the race. I have read that tires need to break in a little to get to the optimal rolling resistance.
If you check out the report Chris G posted you can see the wattage savings with different tires and tube combinations. Like others have said, there really is no reason not to be at least using something from the first page of the results.
I have never really thought too much into things like tubes and tires, this seems like it is getting pretty detailed looking at every little thing; but as Rich said somewhere, the little details is what sets Varsity apart from JV.
I am going to be looking at all the details now!
1- what does that second number mean? I think it's the width (so 25 would be wider than 20) but I'm not sure.
2- Assuming I have the answer to #1 correct, what is the pro/cons to going with a narrower tire? I'm guessing wider is better in corners & wet roads but has more surface so it's also got more rolling resistance?
Am I warm?
Having been involved in some of the 'friendly discourse' on 'other' forums there is plenty I could say on this subject, but I don't disagree with anything I've seen in this thread.
Few quick things I'll add though, first Al has recently released a new revision of the study which includes some new tires/tubes:
AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf
In regards to the data itself, remember that this testing is done indoors on a smooth roller, the Crr and the wattage figures listed do not reflect real world conditions. However, while the Crr will not outdoors, empirical and anecdotal evidence suggests that the same general order of ranking is preserved while Crr and Wattage requirements are roughly multiplied by a factor of ~1.5. It's really kind of a hard pill to swallow if you really take it into consideration, if the data is to be believed you could be cost upwards of 50 watts between a set of poor rolling tires (remember, the figures are Per wheel, you need to multiply by 2 for total cost) compared to an ideal setup.
Lastly, unless I missed it, another very important thing to remember is tire pressure. Higher is certainly not always better, you can take the best rolling tires and completely botch their Crr by over-inflating. Here is a pretty good overview on the general concepts, although your ideal pressure may vary:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/What_s_in_a_tube__1034.html