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Qualify for Boston on 8 Weeks Training?

I'm an adult-onset reluctant runner, meaning I never ran a step until age 50, and then only because I wanted to do triathlons (kinda like those of you who have to learn how to swim as an adult.) I still don't like running; the ONLY time I ever really like doing it is during a race. So I ojnlu run 3 days a week, as little as possible (about 20-25 miles a week, max about 30-35 building to an IM). Ten years ago, once I discovered I was actually a pretty good runner, I decided I needed to check Boston off my life list. So I learned how to pace a marathon (that took three tries) and got 20 minutes under my BQ time, then ran there twice, 05 & 06. After that, I swore off marathons; too much training, too hard work during the race, IMO. But when I got caught up in the emotion surrounding the events at the Boston finish line 2 weeks ago, I realised I had to get back there next year. The light went on when I saw I'll turn 65 the week before Boston, so my BQ time increases by 15 minutes. Details of all that, along with my thoughts on how I might qualify, considering the BQ process, times, and my other racing plans this year and next are found >here< in a blog post.

So I have an 8 week window, May 20-July 14, in which to get ready to run under 3:50 (20 minutes under my BQ time of 4:10). My LRP is 8:40-50, so I *should* be able to do that, given the proper fitness and form. I'm just coming off of 14 weeks OS/12 weeks HIM for St George 70.3, so my run fitness for an HIM is awesome right now; I know I could go out tomorrow and run a 1:36/7 HM. But my one long run over 105 minutes was 14 miles/2 hrs, 4 weeks ago. And I have IM lake Tahoe, which will be 10 weeks after my July 14th marathon, so I don't want to lose any bike fitness during my 8 week marathon hack.

Luckily, I had the good sense to read the Marathon Hack training plan in the Wiki. My plan is to simply take the last 8 weeks of the advanced plan (adv and int seem to be the same over the last 8 weeks) in that hack. It has one tempo run of 80 >> 60 minutes, one interval run of 60 minutes, and one long run each week, so I only have to run 3 times a week, right? Then, I can still swim two days a week (SAUs; we go together Thurs and Sun AMs), and bike long on Sat, with a mid-week interval session using the 5/5 @ 110% protocol. That's only one workout a day, and if I want extra biking, I can do "recovery rides" to the track or to/from work.

So I'm looking for feedback on this general plan. Like, what's the experience with getting a good marathon result from the EN marathon hack? Is it reasonable to think I can run a marathon at my proven LRP, leveraging my OS/HIM run fitness followed by two weeks of transition then the last 8 weeks of the hack? What might I consider doing after the marathon as far as IM training for Tahoe, 10 weeks later?

Comments

  • Al, a marathon at LRP should be a sure thing after the marathon hack. My attempts at BQ's have been at MP, and even after the wheels came off and I walked in most of the last 6+ miles, I was able to average just about LRP. The way you're doing it sounds much more enjoyable.
  • On the surface it does seem very doable especially being able to succeed at LRP. If it were me my only concern would be injury because I'm susceptible to over-use injury when I up my mileage too quickly.
  • Here is my most recent post on this topic...you have done some of the math on the front end...maybe this will help us skip a few steps!

    http://www.marathonnation.us/marathon-training/boston-marathon-qualification-how-to-hack-the-system-to-plan-your-best-qualification-effort/
  • Uh, THANKS! Patrick... looks like you answered ALL the questions I have at this point, about timing and training. I'm digging my own hle here, so I think I know how deep I can go. The training for a July 14th marathon will not be the deal breaker, as far as getting ready for IM Tahoe Sept 22nd - the most important decision will be how fast/far to go on the three long runs I'll be doing 8, 6, and 4 weeks before the marathon. I'm maybe more worried about hitting just the right pace on race day, so the marathon will be more like a long run than a leg crushing effort requiring 2-3 weeks of recovery - that's a hole I could not dig out of in the ten weeks until the IM.

    So if I have specific questions about the weekly hack, should I post them here, or in a micro thread when they come up?

    And, two weeks before the race, I'll do a check back on race-day pacing, based on training times, and what is known @ that time about BQ needs. Like, at this point, attack point (based on a recent HM) says I *could* run a 3:24.xx, but I know the amount of training I'll do won't allow that, nor *should* I do it if I want to also have a race in Tahoe.

  • Al-

    Cool thread. I like the way you are thinking about this.

    Just for fun to let you know, I'm a little bit in the same boat, but kind of backwards. Chris (my 18 year old son) is running his first marathon in a few weeks. He's on track to run sub-3:00 if everything goes his way, and 3:05 (the BQ base standard) should be fine if the wheels don't fall off. Last week, he ran 20 mi at 6:50 average pace (would be 2:59 for 26.2). Between that and the whole thing this year, I've decided I need to hack into a BQ effort if I can.

    I just ran a half marathon last week at 1:29:30. Attack Point says that's "equivalent" to 3:06, and my BQ time is 3:25...so I should have some room to not be in peak marathon form.

    But my twist on it is that I want to race a HIM hard two weeks prior to the only logical race for me to BQ at...so I am similarly hacking the HIM plan now with longer runs than called for...and then the other key will be for me to really focus on recovery in between races.
  • Al- you will have no problem getting a BQ in July even if you go 10 minutes under qual time. I wouldn't put too much stock into what Attackpoint gives you for an equivalent race from HM to Marathon. It's almost always faster than you will be able to run on three days a week. To make attackpoints equivalent times you need to be putting in 6 running days and close to 60 miles per week in my opinion. I am go g for a BQ in June so I will see you there next April. Uh,oh....rich does read this forum does he???
  • One of several reasons Im thinking I need to be twenty min under BQ time.
  • Al, just wanted to let you know that my marathon was this past weekend in Vacouver USA, went 3:13:15 which is 11:44 under BQ. Was shooting for 10 minutes under so very happy with the results. Had hopes for an AG podium finish but that wasn't to be, finished 6th in age group. Good luck at your 26.2!
  • Congrats Steve! Nicely done.
  • Just ran Grandma's on essentially 6 weeks of training (with 2 more of taper) after battling new diagnosis of asthma and not much training for about 3 months. With a lifetime of endurance activity the body is an amazing thing and I was able to make the BQ. Only 4:31 under, and probably 10 minutes slower than if I had trained optimally, I will have to see if that is good enough to get in. But to answer the original question, Yes 8 weeks is enough.
  • Good luck on the Boston bid. Normally 4:31 under BQ would be good enough, but this year may be different.
  • OK, brief follow up, full report to be posted in Race report forum tomorrow. Successfully finished the (beautiful) Missoula MT marathon this morning.

    Finished 2/42 in AG, 200/1400 OA in 3:46:10, an 8:38 pace. Just about exactly the numbers I figured I should hit, since I wanted to make *sure* I got under 3:50 (BQ for 65-69 is 4:10). So I met my goal on 8 weeks of specific marathon training, while improving my swim workout times and building some bike speed AND endurance. 21 total run workouts, 190 miles total, during the 8 week build. I skipped all the biking and half of the swimming during the taper week, and will probably go back to full bike week, 2/3rds swim week, and whatever running I can get in during recovery week. I figure I've got the long IM plan runs for both the taper & recovery weeks. And I'm betting I'll be back to full IM training plan within 7 days.

    Key lesson re-learned: it doesn't matter how slow (or fast) I go, anything over 17-18 miles is always hard work. 2:20-2:30 is my cut-off for long runs, for sure. I ran the last 7 miles with a guy who has done 65 marathons in the last 52 months. When he heard my IM schedule, we each agreed the other is an idiot. (Guess what? He says he'd like to do an IM, but "I can't swim"... CPSTT [crap people say to triathletes])

  • Congrats! Well done. See you in Boston next April!
  • Congratulations Al!! Really happy for you!!
  • WTG Al! See you in Bean Town 2014!
  • That's awesome, good work!
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