JoeyBog's Macro Thread
Good morning! I guess I should have asked this question a few weeks ago, but...
I'm 49 years old. My A Race this year is IMWI. Between now and then I have 70.3 Muncie.
I had my first race of the season on Sunday - St. A's Olympic. I wasn't really sure what my goals should be for the race. In then end, I was shooting to do the entire thing in Z4.
In the swim, my last swim pace measurement was 1:49. I swam St. A's w/a 1:47 pace
I ride Powermeter (but only as of the last couple of months). On the bike, my last bike zone measurement was (relevant zones) Z3: 150-180; Z4: 180-210. I rode St. A's @ an average power of 187.
On the run, my last HR measurement was (relevant zones) Z3: 115-135; Z4 - 135-145; Z5 - 145-150. I have a worrisome pinched nerve issue in my back, and so in some ways I was happy to just finish the run w/no problem. Looking @ time, pace and HR, though, it was just ok in my book. I ran St. A's w/an average HR of 155, which was exactly a 9:00 pace for me (not great, but not bad). Splits are below. Any thoughts/comments?
| 1 (1st half) | 28:35.5 | 3.19 | 8:57 (HR 156) |
| Mile 4 | 7:42.9 | 0.83 | 9:19 (HR 149) |
| 5 | 9:01.5 | 0.98 | 9:14 (HR 152) |
| 6 | 11:02.2 | 1.27 | 8:41 (HR 158) |
Comments
As submitted, my pace info could have been clearer
1st half PACE 8:57, HR 156
Mile 4 PACE 9:19, HR 149
Mile 5 PACE 9:14, HR 152
Mile 6 PACE 9:14, HR 152
Well, I guess I was just looking for your impressions, which I guess you gave. Previous coaches have always been interested to know my race-day performance and provided a critique, so I pretty much just sent my race-day performance results to you out of habit.
That said, I guess I have 2 specific questions about my performance last Sunday:
1, was "do the whole thing in Z4" an appropriate goal for a guy like me (49, headed for IMWI w/nothing but 70.3 Muncie in-between)? Or would you advise Z3...or Z5...?
2, was there anything about my zones that looked odd to you? I'm not sure I'm setting them right, particularly for the run. For that, I just take the HR readings from my bike test, and when I'm @ 80% capacity on the power meter I use whatever my HR is @ that time 80% capacity on the run; and I set my run zones by HR.
As for zones, I saw the calculator you recently posted on the home page, and much appreciate that. However, where are the narratives that explain "here's how you set your bike and run zones in EN"? To date I've been using zones I set w/an in-person coach a couple of months ago, and I want to bookmark your directions so I can use them regularly as I proceed.
As far as what I'm looking for re: my 70.3 and IM training, well, I'm not sure. What SHOULD I be looking for? My first specific question, now, is what are the parameters around which I should be getting my head for 70.3 in July? I read the self-coaching guide and saw "Half Ironman as an Ironman Race Rehearsal- Waste of time and money" Ok. That makes sense. But what SHOULD an athlete like me do? I guess what I'm looking for is your guidance along the lines of "for an half-iron, an athlete like you is wise to do the first half of the bike in Z3, then the second half in Z4; and then the entire run @ the high end of Z3." Something like that (whatever the numbers are) is what I'm hoping for.
Ultimately, I'd like to get the same kind of parameters for the Ironman, but it's premature for that.
Thanks much!!
(1) yes, "z4" in an olympic is a good goal for anyone (your z4 is yours, mine is mine, etc)…in addition early season racing is a great chance to fine tune equipment, nutrition, transitions, etc.
(2) The best way to set your run zones for training and racing is from a run test. We usually use a 5k test to do that; If you haven't seen a "test week" since you joined EN, then you can certainly load one up in your account (under Training Plan / My Plan / Move Change Plans) do get the testing in.
If you need instructions on how to set your zones, you can refer to either the first week of your plan (when you started with EN), the last week of your OutSeason Plan (if you ended there), any 4th week of almost any EN plan (it has testing), or the actual testing week above. For further information, you can go to Resources / Wiki / Bike or /Run and review the resources listed on those pages under the "Testing Section" to help you out.
(3) On pacing Muncie, there is no "racing just for people like you" - everyone in EN races the same (unless we are talking injury, nutrition, etc). The pacing is determined using your zones and the racing calculators; you can find those resources under Resources / Wiki / Race Execution. Here's a link to the "HIM How To" section of the wiki: http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Race+Execution,+Half+Ironman
The broader point on "HIM as RR is Waste of $$" is just that you should race the HIM, not just show up and do it at IM pace, etc. So we are looking for a really solid run, particularly the last 10k. We want solid "smart" pacing in the first 30' of the run and the bike per our Four Keys guidance. You are looking to see how your bike fit and power output perform over the course, how your nutrition plan holds up and what areas of your "race scenario" we will want to tweak.
And, we have all of this execution / pacing info for Ironman as well in the same spaces on the site (under IM labels).
Finally, on the HR issue we'd prefer you race the run with Pace if possible, but if not you are looking to be between 10 and 15 beats higher than what you averaged in the last hour of the bike. The older you get the lower that number is..could be as low as 5 beats difference….IM and HIM racing is all about Maximum SUSTAINABLE Effort across the whole course…hope that helps!
No problem. Thanks for all the info. I wanted to get through it all before responding.
I am loading up a “test week” starting tomorrow.
Question about setting run pace: In your Forum reply, here, you say that your preference is for your athletes to “run with Pace.” But in looking @ the run test in the test week I just loaded up, the measuring seems to be about HR zones – “Run a 5k Time Trial…Goal is to hold a pace you can sustain for the full duration…Get average HR for test, this is your Lactate Threshold HR used to calculate HR training zones.” But it doesn’t talk about zones other than HR zones. I also went to the EN Bike & Run Calculators and put in some old time and HR numbers, to see how it works. When I put those numbers in, I see the HR zones changing in the Calculator, but nothing happens to the Run Pace Zones. Can you help me to understand this a bit better, and use the numbers from the test I’ll do this week to calculate the Run Pace Zones? Sorry!
Finally, a question about the week I’ve just finished:
Yesterday I did the following workout from the current place in my Get Faster plan:
WU: 10-15', then 3 x 1' (1') @ Zone4/Hard, to open up your legs.
MS1: 10' of ""ON"" time
MS2: Remainder of available ride time at 80-85%/Zone3/Mod-Hard
CD: 5-10' @ 65-70%/Zone1/Easy
My current FTP is 201
During the “ON” time, my numbers more or less steadily declined:
535
492
404
417
388
360
326
372
360
351
Part of this is due to some nervousness about the speed I was reaching @ 535W on a narrow road, on which I haven’t ridden since last season. Part, though, is due to fatigue. So, then, my question: Is my goal in “ON” time to have all the splits be roughly the same power, or “all out” each time (which suggests that each one will be a little lighter than the last, because the gas in the tank is draining)?
Thanks!
Joe
Hi, again. In addition to what I posted earlier this week, I have a new issue.
This week is a testing week for me. Today was bike test. I am a power meter user. The FTP that I have been using for the past couple of months is 201.
In general, my attitude towards all the workouts in the past few weeks has been "I'd better enjoy these 'easy' ones while I can, because soon I will re-test and I've improved so much that my FTP will go way up, and the workouts will then be much harder."
A couple of examples from recent performance:
1. Last Saturday (3 days ago), a 150 mile ride day w/a lot of Zone 3 time (after WU and 10 minutes of ON time), I rode 105 minutes @ 171W and thought it was easy. Coulda done it all day.
2. On April 28 (so 2 weeks ago), St. A's Olympic race day in which I was targeting to ride in Z4 the whole way, I rode 73 minutes @ 187W and, while challenged, wasn't anywhere near out of gas @ the end of the ride.
Today, in the VO2 portion I did 206W. In the FTP portion I did 164W and cut it to 10 minutes instead of 20 b/c I just didn't think I could finish.
Now, the difference today is I was inside, rather than out. Same bike, same power meter; but on a trainer not on the road. I felt prior to starting that I was ready and energized, and I was going to kill it. During the ride, I could see the meter, but both perceived effort and the gear I was in (Big Ring, 5th hardest of 9 on the cassette) was that I was putting out significantly higher. For example, my Avg. HR was 159 today in the FTP test, whereas the highest HR during Saturday's ON time (where I should be working much harder, though, granted, shorter) was 154.
So, now, my questions:
1. Any experience w/power meters behaving differently on the trainer than on the road? I'm like "I was putting out a TON and the meter just wasn't recognizing it."
2. Since I assume your advice is to re-test, and I intend to do that on the road later this week, how should I rearrange my schedule for the week? The schedule left is:
W: Swim 60 (Propulsion Progression)
T: Run test
F: Swim 45 (recovery?)
S: Bike 150
S: Run 45-50
3. I am in a test week, but I don't see a swim test. Should I be doing one?
Thanks!
Joe
On time is at 120% FTP or in your case 240 watts. Your average appears to have been 200% FTP...sounds like your FTP might need a bit of work.
Thanks. I'm not sure you saw both posts, but there were several questions I had that weren't answered. I put them all here, w/o the context, so that they can be isolated. But, if you need the context, it's all in my previous 2 posts. My questions are:
1. Can you help me to understand setting run pace a bit better, so that I can use the numbers from the test I’ll do this week to calculate the Run Pace Zones?
2. I was able to ride 1’45” @ 171W 3 days ago, and thought it was easy, and I was able to ride 1’15” @ 187W 2 weeks ago. I think that my ability to do only 164W over a 10” FTP test today means there was something wrong. Would you agree?
3. Assuming you agree, do you think I should re-do the test?
4. Assuming you agree and you think I should re-do the test, how should I rearrange my schedule for the week to fit in that additional test? I am thinking Saturday, but that means shortchanging an otherwise long ride.
5. Do you have any experience w/power meters behaving differently on the trainer than on the road? I think this is what happened to me today. I can't otherwise understand how I could put out so little apparent power.
6. I am in a test week, but I don't see a swim test. Should I be doing one?
Thanks!
Joe
1 - Here's a video on how to enter the run data to get your run zones. The next step is me coming to your house to enter the data, so I hope this works!!!!
2 - Your PM sounds jacked up. I don't know what type of powermeter you have, but it sounds like you need to run an "offset" to essentially recalibrate it. We recommend doing this before EVERY SINGLE RIDE so your data is pure. If that's not the issue, it could be a low battery as well. So time to read the manual on the offset / zero torque procedure or head over to the Power / Pace forum for further guidance there.
3 - Yes you should retest, but I would do it next Tuesday so we don't lose the long ride.
4 - If you don't see a swim test, you don't need to do one...if you feel like your swim needs to be tested, you can work it in!
I can do the run test on Saturday - just 1 day after the swim test (1 day "early"), BUT do it on my home course - a course I can run all the time, and the course on which I've done every run test so far.
Or, I can to the run test on Sunday - on the right day, but not on my home course. On Sunday I will be somewhere I have been, and run, before, but not regularly. I know exactly the route I would run. It is flat (like my home course), but I won't be running it again before IMWI in September.
In your opinion, which should I do?
Thanks!
1. I've revisited our prior discussion about Muncie, now less than 2 weeks away. I'm inclined to chuck that race and just continue w/your training schedule. Doing a half-iron right now does seem like a big disruption in the training, and, in addition, it's a hassle to go, hotel, do it, etc., particularly since I don't have any friends doing it. I need on the slightest bit of encouragement and third party rationale in order to cancel it. Whaddayagot?
2. I connected w/some local tri friends to ride yesterday, on the IMWI course. All of them are training for IMWI like I am, but under another coach and training program. Since I joined them for their ride, I rode what they rode. Their plan called for 6 hours in the saddle. I had fun w/them, and was able to keep pace w/their group w/o killing myself, notwithstanding that the EN Intermediate IM plan hasn't had me in the saddle for more than 3.5 hours before yesterday. It turned out to be 2 hours in my Z3, then 4 hours in my Z2 - average over the 6 hours was right between my Z2 and Z3. 100 miles. I'm inclined to continue to train w/them on Saturdays moving forward, both because it's fun and because they know the local ride routes better than I - if I don't train w/them I'll be training solo, since I am relatively new to the area and don't know many people here. I've looked ahead @ the EN training plan, and see that I have a 6 hour ride in Week 15, then another in Week 18. So, if I cycle w/them I will be logging significantly more saddle time than the EN plan would otherwise dictate. As my coach, how do you feel about that? Am I departing too much from "the plan"?
Thanks!
on the long rides, if you ride longer then we ask, then cut back the Sunday ride. Keep it at a minimum of 90', but you can cut it down as much as you need to that point. Note that each week calls for a certain amount of "work" for that weekend ride (2 x 12, 2 x 15, etc.)...so try to get those efforts in on the rides if possible...
on the six hour rides those are race rehearsal workouts and we want you to ride solo. Please to go Resources / Race Central and to Learn Up on what we want there...
Coach Notes: Race Prep Long Run -- Alternating intervals at (z1/LRP) and above (z2/MP/Steady) your goal race effort. Do the standard EN run warm up and then drop into the Main Set. IF you feel GOOD, you can run the z1/LRP intervals between 10" and 30" faster per mile. IF you are TIRED, then go z1/LRP so you can hit the z2/MP work. Recovery intervals MUST be at z1/LRP only.
See? It says "(z2/MP/Steady) your goal race effort"
But, in IMWI Training Camp this past weekend, it seemed to be the discussion that Z1 is our goal race effort. That seems more doable.
My Z1 is 10:10/mile, and my Z2 is 8:46. Big difference!
What's your recommendation?
Joe
Complete the Maintenance Workout found in the Wiki Here (http://bit.ly/HFM1ad). Do all of it or only the parts you feel necessary (Strength, Core or
Here is the maintenance link: http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=2011+Maintenance+Workouts