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Dazed & Confused

I spent some time today going over the Long Course Bike Execution webinar materials from May 2009.  In attempting to navigate the site to find other resources, I've run into some difficulties.  I can't seem to find the "Wattage Calculator" referenced on Slide 10.  It also looks like all of the links to the Ironman Gearing Thread are busted. 

Any help would be appreciated!

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Comments

  • I also don't know if the "Wattage Calculator" referred to on Slide 10 and the "Pacing Calculator" referred to on Slide 6 are two different calculators.
  • @KZ, since that webinar was in '09 and it's '13 my guess is things have changed a bit. I *just* wrote a post on this in the Race Execution forums here: http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/11565/Default.aspx

    Hope that helps...
  • Hi Coach P,

    Thanks for the link, but when I open the spreadsheet I just get a bunch of nonsensical characters at the top.

    KMZ
  • Hmmm I clicked on it and it worked just fine. :( here it is again or just go to the Race Execution forum, it'll be at the top !!!!

    http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/11565/Default.aspx
  • Thanks a lot, Coach P. The problem was definitely on my end.

    Now that I have a handle on proper pacing, I had a race nutrition question. I got race day nutrition planning from QT2. In going over it, between gels, clif bloks and bottles of IM Perform, it looks like the plans call for anywhere from 400 calories (HIM) to nearly 500 calories (IM) during the bike leg. This seems to be WAY higher than the EN recommended levels I'm seeing in the Race Execution Wiki.

    I'm hoping to go at a pretty high IF during my upcoming HIM on June 9 (0.82-0.84) and I'm concerned that a caloric intake at this level will make that more difficult.

    Thoughts?

    Thank you!

    Kevin
  • @ Kevin - Have you trained with that level of caloric intake at that intensity.  Nutrition is like all other aspects of your training plan and you have to train it to know if it will work.  I know that a plan like the QT2 plan does not work for me.  I have tried it and left most of the contents of my stomach on the side of the road.  Try it on one of your long high intensity rides.   Most Sports Dietitians know that race nutrition is not one size fits all.  People who prescribe train low have had people on the IM podium, people who prescribe high calorieintake have had people on the podium.  It doesn't matter that it did or didn't work for someone else, it matters if it works for you. 

  • @Kevin, John is right...the QT2 plan only works if you can do it for a few weeks...so give it a go and see how you feel over the next few weeks...if it works let's roll with it....but it does take time to adjust!
  • Thank you John and Coach P for the input. I've been following it for my longer rides without any difficulties, but I haven't had a long run following a long bike yet to see how it feels.
  • Ok, keep us posted. Every session is a chance to put this to the test!
  • So, on the bike - based on a 2:35:00 bike split - the QT2 HIM plan calls for:

    1/2 Power Bar (115 Calories)
    2 Powergels (220 Calories)
    6 Cliff Bloks (200 Calories)
    72 oz Sports Drink (1 Scoop of IM Perform/8 oz = 9 Scoops = 630 Cal)
    TOTAL = 1165 Calories/2440 mg Sodium (451 Calories/Hour; 945 mg Sodium/Hour)

    I did my 30 minute run followed by 3 hour bike (trainer w/ light fan; pretty sweaty!) yesterday and went with the following
    2 Powergels (220 Calories)
    84 oz Sports Drink (1 Scoop of IM Perform/12 oz = 7 scoops = 490 Cal)
    TOTAL = 710 Calories/1800 mg Sodium (237 Calories/Hour; 600 mg Sodium/Hour)

    I won't say I felt ready to head out on a 13.1 mile run after getting off the bike, but I didn't feel particularly depleted from a caloric/sodium standpoint. I'm more inclined to attribute my reduced energy level coming off the bike to the early Z4 intervals that were part of the workout (contributing to a 209 TSS when my HIM goal TSS is 169), than to the changes in nutrition.

    My plan is to stick with this approach for my upcoming race rehearsal on May 25 and see how the 60 minute run off the bike feels.


  • KEvin, looks good. I'd swap out the bloks for more gels if needed, otherwise looks good...keep me posted on the RR!
  • I used today's 2 hour bike ride to further experiment with my nutrition planning. Here is how it went.

    Bike Data
    Time: 2:09:11 (this is my total moving time; I had to stop briefly at one point because a bug went right into the front vent on my helmet!)
    Distance: 46.31 miles
    Avg Power: 204W
    Normalized Power: 210W
    Avg Speed: 21.3 mph
    Avg Cadence: 95 RPM
    TSS: 146.2
    IF: 0.824

    Post-Bike Run: 30 minutes at 7:58/mile (NGP = 7:50/mile)

    It was 80-85 degrees during this bike/run session. I was sweatin' like crazy on the run!

    Here is how nutrition went

    BREAKFAST: I had one banana with coffee and almond milk before leaving the house (approximately 146 calories).
    PRE-RIDE: I took two SaltStick tablets (430 mg sodium) and half a PowerBar (115 Calories; 100 mg sodium) before starting the bike
    RIDE: During the ride, I drank 58 oz of water mixed with 5 scoops of IM Perform (350 Calories; 1000 mg sodium). I also had one Powergel Latte (110 Calories; 200 mg sodium) and 6 Clif Bloks (200 Calories; 140 mg sodium)

    TOTAL HYDRATION: 58 oz (27 oz/hour); Given the heat today, this could've been higher - maybe another 10 oz.

    TOTAL CALORIES PRE-RIDE/RIDE: 775 Calories (360.5 Calories/hour); This felt like the right amount from a tolerably diverse combination of sources. No gut issues starting or during the run. Didn't feel particularly full or hungry as I laced up my running shoes.

    TOTAL SODIUM PRE-RIDE/RIDE: 1870 mg sodium (870 mg sodium/hour); Again, no problems here. I think the two SaltStick tabs pre-ride may be the ticket for me.

    So, for my race rehearsal this coming Saturday, my plan is to stick fairly close to these per hour intake amounts by adding: (i) another 24 oz bottle with 2 scoops of IM Perform (140 Calories; 400 mg sodium); and (ii) another Powergel Latte (110 Calories; 200 mg sodium).

    For a 2:40 bike split, this will put me at 82 oz fluid (30.75 oz/hour); 1025 Calories (384.4 Calories/hour); and 2470 mg sodium (926.3 mg sodium/hour)

    Surprise! Surprise! After all that tinkering, I ended up very close to the QT2 plan after all!
  • I like it. Remember, the one "variable" you can flex as you go is the fluids. More calories comes from there (and sodium)...so right now you are at 1.25 bottles (assuming 24 oz bottles) per hour. If it's really hot (for you), then you go to 2 bottles for the first hour, then 1.5 thereafter... If it's moderately hot, then go to 1.5 per hour...

    Good luck and thanks for the updates!
  • Race Rehearsal!

    I followed the QT2 pre-race nutrition by having 3 cups of unsweetened apple sauce, 1 banana, 1 serving of Caprotein (goat whey) protein powder, 1 x 24 oz bottle of IM Perform (3 scoops) and one cup of coffee with a 1/4 cup of unsweetened almond milk about 3 hours before starting my ride.

    Perfect weather today - 67 degrees and sunny with just enough cross wind to be annoying

    Bike Data
    Time: 2:39:45
    Distance: 56.24 miles
    Avg Speed: 21.13 mph
    Avg Cadence: 102 RPM
    Avg Power: 210W
    Normalized Power: 214W
    Variability Index: 1.02
    TSS: 186.8
    IF: 0.838
    Calories Burned: 2015 kj

    Pre/On Bike Nutrition:
    TOTAL CALORIES: 1065 Calories (399.4 Calories/Hour)
    TOTAL SODIUM: 2470 mg Sodium (926.3 mg Sodium/Hour)

    Here is the breakdown of what went into my face hole:
    Pre Ride: 1/2 Powerbar (Berry): 115 Calories; 100 mg Sodium
    Pre Ride: 2 Saltstick Tablets: 430 mg Sodium
    During Ride: 3 Powergels Latte: 330 Calories; 600 mg Sodium
    During Ride: 6 Clif Bloks: 200 Calories; 140 mg Sodium
    During Ride: 3 x 24 oz bottles of IM Perform with 2 scoops per bottle: 420 Calories; 1200 mg Sodium

    Post-Ride Run
    Time: 47:24
    Distance: 6.0 Miles
    Avg Pace: 7:54/Mile
    Nutrition: I drank a bit of water from a FuelBelt handheld during the run, but didn't have anything else.

    One pee break between bike and run. I don't think I have ever felt better running off of the bike. From start to finish, the run felt very fluid and low effort - ended up being right on my HMP. I think this is the plan that is going to work for me at my 70.3 in two weeks!
  • Kevin, you have almost earned your Nutrition Merit Badge!!!! My caveats for you:

    * Remember on the run it must be sports drink as well. Note what's on the course (Perform / Gatorade PRO are essentially the same), if not you need to plan.
    * if you ever just take water, you must supplement with salt.
    * If it's hotter than "usual" for you, plan on increasing Perform intake in that first hour (aim for 2 bottles, for example) to get the fluids in.

    Pumped for you!!!
  • Race Nutrition Report - Grand Rapids 70.3 (June 9, 2013)

    Race Day Weather: Perfect. Temp in the low 60's at the 7 am swim start and got up to around 77 when I started the run, with 64% humidity.

    Race Day Breakfast: I followed the QT2 pre-race nutrition by having 3 cups of unsweetened apple sauce, 1 banana, 2 tablespoons of Caprotein (goat whey) protein powder, 1 x 24 oz bottle of IM Perform (3 scoops) and a few sips off a 5 hour energy.

    Pre-Swim: 1 Powergel Latte (110 Calories) + 4-5 oz water; 2 Salt Tabs (430 mg sodium)

    Swim Time: 38:24

    Swim to Bike Transition: 3:53

    Bike: 2:42:47

    Bike Notes: According to my Joule, I rode 57.89 miles. Other participants I've talked to have told me they had similar results. In my view, race organizers need to do a better job of making sure that total mileage is a little bit closer to the pin. I also had to stop at the halfway point for a 2 minute porta potty break, plus a short stop when I dropped my chain.

    Bike Nutrition:
    1/2 Powerbar (115 Calories)
    3 Latter Powergels (330 Calories)
    6 Cliff Bloks (200 Calories)
    3 x 24 oz bottles with 2 scoops of IM Perform each (420 Calories)
    TOTAL CALORIES: 1065 [393 calories/hour]
    TOTAL HYDRATION: 72 oz [27 oz/hour]

    Bike to Run Transition: 6:59
    Transition Notes: Pre-run need to hit the porta potty led to an even greater time loss than I had in T1. Too MUCH nutrition!

    Run: 1:52:08

    Run Nutrition: At every aid station, I drank some Gatorade. I also took in 3 Latte Powergels (330 Calories) over the course of the run. One porta potty stop at about the halfway point.

    FINAL TIME: 5:24:13

    Nutrition Plan Notes: The Pre-Race breakfast of 3 cups of applesauce plus a 24 oz drink puts a LOT of liquid on board. Then, adding another 72 oz of liquid and over 1000 calories during the bike just becomes a lot MORE for the body to process, use and/or discard. Because of this, I ended up with 3 porta potty stops as time ticked away.

    Also, I felt sluggish on the run.

    At REV3 Cedar Point last year (where I had my 70.3 PR of 5:15:21 despite even LONGER transition times than I had in Grand Rapids), I took in just 650 calories on the bike and I started the run at a very strong pace before conking out a bit in the last 3 miles.

    From this, I think I will stick with the applesauce centered pre-race breakfast, but I might bump up the intake time to 4 hours before race start rather than 3 to give it more time to move through the system. I will probably re-tool the bike nutrition by dropping the 1/2 Powerbar, 1 gel and 3 Cliff Bloks. This would bring me down to 740 total calories during the bike leg. I will use salt tablets to make up for the lost sodium. On the run, I think I will stick with the sports drink at every aid station and the caffeinated gels every 30 minutes or so to guard against conking out in the later miles.
  • @Kevin, great detail. Yes to earlier breakfast or a cup of coffee helps that too. image I think you can hack the nutrition for a half, but that if you are heading up to a full you should reconsider. You'll need all the calories you can get!

    Also note if you had peed on the bike you wouldn't have last that time. I peed 2x at Rev3 quassy on the bike, 1x on the run. But it was 88 and I was still low on fluids!!!
  • Thanks Coach P!

    I completely agree with you on maintaining high calorie intake for IM.

    I haven't been able to crack the secret of letting it fly on the bike ... I need to figure that out ...
  • Hey Coach P!

    Question for you. I did a 70.3 on June 9. I took the week following the race completely off - other than stretching, roller, recovery-promotion types of activities - and then, on Monday, June 17, I dropped into Week 9 of the Advanced Ironman plan ending on September 8 (IM WISCONSIN).

    Since Monday, I've had 4 runs, 2 swims and 1 bike session. The swims have been fine, but I've been unable to hit the prescribed zones for the run workouts and the bike - and its not like I've been close!

    Any ideas on why my fitness might be out of whack, suggestions for what I might do to get it back on track or modifications to workouts while I'm going through this downturn.

    Kevin
  • @Kevin, you still have some residual fatigue...that's clear with the peak/race and now extended down cycle. You will need a bit longer...don't push the weekend at all....keep the rhythm (workout type and duration) but bag the intensity...make sure your sleep is 100% and, bonus points, start tracking that resting (waking) Heart Rate so we know where you are at.

    Hopefully you are "Back" by Wednesday's bike...let me know!
  • Hi Coach P,

    Better today, but still not what I would consider all the way back. My Z4 is 255-268W. I did the 10' and the 15' intervals in this zone (262W and 259W, respectively) - however, I did them sitting up, not in aero. When I started the 20' interval after the 4' recovery, I felt gassed and pulled up. After giving myself another 1-2' of recovery time, I decided to go with 2x10' with a 2' RBI. I ended up doing the first one at 243W and the second at 244W. Again, I was sitting up, not aero.

    Previously , I had been able to maintain Z4 while in aero - For example, on May 21, I did 3 x 15' @ Z4 with 4' RBI and ended up with NP of 261W, 262W and 262W and was in aero for all of the intervals.

    I was able to follow the ride with a 35' run (although the transition wasn't exactly lightning quick!) that included 3x4' at Z3 with 2' RBI.
  • Ok, so the fatigue is still there...I wouldn't sweat the numbers just yet, but you might be faced with having to choose: volume training for IMWI or keep the volume down until the peak fitness comes back.

    Given the work you have done thus far, I'd prefer #2...but it's really hard for most folks to do with an IM looming and fear of the distance. We can discuss further here depending how your weekend goes...keep me posted!

    The middle road is to make sure you are uber-recovery-geek-master after each session, sleeping at night, etc. Give yourself time to warm up and fuel like a rock star.

    Randomly, I wonder how your flexibility has been affected (if at all) by the peak/race/recover period...could be you need to hit the foam roller for a bit!
  • Hi Coach P,

    I'm perfectly fine with the strategy of keeping volume down until peak fitness returns. While it does make me a bit nervous to decrease volume with IM WI coming up so quickly, I'm certain that I would prefer that to what I see as the alternative - which is to maintain volume even though I feel like I'm dragging myself through the workouts, which = reduced fun. This is particularly true given the fact that I have IM WI in just over 10 weeks followed by IM AZ 10 weeks after that. So, I'd prefer to do whatever you think is necessary to get myself back on track and bakc to peak fitness.

    From your post, I'm assuming that I should proceed with the 4 hour Saturday and 3 hour Sunday rides that are on the schedule for this weekend. What are your suggestions on adjustments to next week's schedule? Also, while I don't sense any real change in flexibility, I will step up the number of rumble roller sessions!

  • I would drop the Monday PM run and any brick sessions. You might even want to take Monday off this week (or Friday if you get this too late) to see if 1 day a week of rest makes a difference!!
  • I would drop the Monday PM run and any brick sessions. You might even want to take Monday off this week (or Friday if you get this too late) to see if 1 day a week of rest makes a difference!!
  • Hello Coach P,

    I dropped the Monday run, did the Tuesday run in the a.m. and the swim in the afternoon (out of the water just before 4 pm EST), hopped on the bike this morning at around 7:15 am EST following a full (8+ hours) night sleep and just had nothing. My Z4 is 255-268. I tried going with 5' Z4 intervals with 2' RBI. I squeezed out 4 of those in aero at around 254W but conked out on interval #5 as I watched NP drop into the 230's.

    Even though I was using the same bike with the same wheel on the same trainer, I decided to put my race wheel on just to make sure it wasn't some kind of equipment issue. It isn't. Watts didn't go up with the race wheel.

    I'm finding that I'm also struggling to hold prescribed paces during run workouts - particularly during the long runs.

    Curiously, the weekend long rides have gone well and I have generally been able to hold the prescribed paces during those.

    It is now 4 weeks since my 70.3 and my continuing inability to knock out Z4 intervals is starting to mess with my head a little bit.

    Any suggestions?
  • Update. Headed out on the long run this morning. Based on my last 5K test, my vDOT is 45. Rather than trying to hold the prescribed paces (which recent experience has proven to be just an exercise in frustration), I set my Garmin to repeat 16:30 run/0:30 walk intervals. First two intervals felt pretty good - around 8:08-8:12 during the run portion (certainly slower than my vDOT predicted MP, but not terrible either). Second two intervals felt less good but manageable -around 8:20-8:25 during the run portion. During #5, I completely conked out - pace dropping into the 8:40-8:50 range.

    Rather than gutting through it like I did last Thursday, I sat down and called the shag wagon to come pick me up.

    This sucks. How do I turn it around? Do I need to consider skipping IM Wisconsin and try and get myself straightened out for IM Arizona?
  • KZ, your experience is consistent with a long season of training. Here's a piece I wrote on it last year: http://www.endurancenation.us/blog/bike/fatigue-ftp-your-final-weeks/

    You aren't UNFIT, you are just RACE FIT (not TRAINING FIT). I am still greedy though, given what's left on your plate...I still want a bit more rest. Cap the long rides this weekend at 3 hours, and make them both easy out, steady back. On Monday we swim only. Tuesday run strides only. Wednesday, tell me how the bike goes (no run). Thursday we run for time, not effort, as Z1 effort for 80%, then z2 for last 20%. Friday Swim only....then we try Saturday's full workout...

    Keep me posted.

    As always, sleeping 8 hours. EATING DURING EVERY WORKOUT RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. GEL AT MINUTE 10, FOR EXAMPLE. Stay hydrated, etc. image
  • Thanks, Coach P. My training schedule called for a Big Day tomorrow. Based on your post, I'm assuming that should be switched to a 3 hour ride only, with another 3 hours on Sunday. I hope I've got that right.
  • My bike workout on Sat., 7/6/13. I did 63.15 miles in 2:57:51.
    Average Speed = 21.3 MPH;
    Normalized Power = 213W;
    Average Power = 210W;
    VI = 1.01;
    TSS = 206.9;
    IF = 0.837

    http://tpks.ws/10Ph
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