Tremblant 70.3 RR #1 report and nutrition questions
Did my first RR bike and run yesterday for Tremblant 70.3. Overall went pretty well I think. I have a few questions around nutrition and pacing that it would be great to have some input on. It is a long read, but my main questions are highlighted in bold below, you can skip the verbose middle stuff.
I wasn't planning on doing the RR on Saturday since the weather was supposed to be really bad, but when I woke up the forecast had changed for the better so I decided to just go for it. This probably saved me from fretting about it all night. As a consequence I didn't do the RR swim on friday night but I did do Monday's 3000m swim instead (in the pool for 1hr7, moving time 54:27, avg pace 1:45/100 SCM). I feel this probably wouldn't have made too much of a difference.
On the bike I completed the 90k in about 2:47, mostly aero, IF .8, TSS 176. Pavg 185, Pn 196. VI 1.07 overall which isn't great. Regarding VI, I was doing pretty well for the first 16k with 1.02, then 1.04 the next 8k, then I took a wrong turn and got into some short steep rollers so my VI went to 1.13 for the next 24k. The good thing is that on the return leg of a segment that was previously 1.13, I improved to 1.08, then was back down to 1.02 and 1.01 for the remainder. So something to work on, but not terrible, I guess. I was dressed pretty warm and was really sweating by the end. Next RR I would like to target .81 or .82 IF if possible. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/311213673
The run went pretty well, relatively quick transition. I had a hard time keeping the pace down for the first three miles so I took some walking breaks. The last 3 miles were also too fast as by then I just wanted to get it over with. Definitely need to work on not overcooking the first few miles! On the plus side, no cramps, aches or pains or distress at all. I drank a whole 20oz of perform though which was too much I think as I was burping a bit by the end. I think I need to alternate Perform and water at aid stations and am going to practice this at my upcoming half marathon race. 9.6k/47 minutes. Target for first 3 miles: 5:03/k (actual 5:00/k), Target for remainder 4:45/k (Actual 4:38/k). http://connect.garmin.com/activity/311216485
Nutrition:
Prerace breakfast was good, not hungry at all 2hrs later when I got on the bike. I didn't have enough applesauce at home so I substituted a honey stinger waffle. Next time I plan on another 1 cup of applesauce and no waffle. Also no coffee. During the bike I was starting to feel a bit out of gas at 45 minutes in which I attribute to not having much on board except for the 2 shot bloks. Not sure if this would be an issue during the race if I take 2 powergels prior to the swim start as recommended in the wiki. Otherwise do I need a power gel at the start of the bike? The wiki says just fluids for the first 30 minutes.
I drank 58oz of perform on during the bike (I was carrying 68 oz). I never felt really thirsty, but my HR steadily increased so I think there was some dehydration. Also my preworkout weight was 153 pounds and afterwards it was 149, so I lost 4 lbs. I had to constantly remind myself to drink and it didn't help that I think I cut my aerobar bottle straw a couple of inches too short so I really had to dip my head for a drink. I'll try a longer straw next time. Also I think I will need to supplement with straight up water. For the race I think I should carry 48oz of perform and pick up water at the aid stations, drinking at least 1/2 a bottle each time.
The biggest concern is that when I tally the total carbohydrates and calories for the ride I am at 88g/hr carbs, and 365 cal/hr which are well above recommended values. My sodium intake was good, though at 762mg/hr. Not sure how to remedy this. If I cut down to only 2 gels during the ride and 48 oz of perform I will still be at 71g/hr carbs and 293 cal/hr, assuming a 2hr45 effort. The problem then is that Sodium would drop to 600mg/hr at the bottom of guidance. I was hoping to keep my Na a little higher without an electrolyte pill (one more thing to remember), but I don't know any other way around this problem of too much carbs, not enough Na. I didn't have stomach issues today, so I am not sure how crucial the CHO load is.
Comments
You are not eating enough apple sauce, a guy your size should be about 3.75 to 4 cups in the AM with your, listed above as noted plus a sport drink. That is why you are hungry later in the day.
Don't skip the coffee. As matter of fact 15 min before the race have a gel with caffeine and some water. That would be the end of your water for the day. For the rest of the day it is your perform to be sipped every 10 min whether you need it or not. You need to pee at least once on the bike for your HIM or you are not drinking enough.
Every half hour you should be taking a gel with caffeine and the last hour or so switch up to shot blocks with caffeine. Don't drink anything that does not have a nutritional value i.e. water as you don't need that because your body will just find itself thirsty with a bunch of liquid sloshing around your belly and not digesting.
My 2 cent ?
Yes I agree on the applesauce!
The conundrum I have with the perform is if I take enough to have to urinate (definitely did not have to at all until probably 30 minutes after the RR was all done) , I will have way too many calories and carbs/hr especially if I also use power gels and shot bloks. If I don't use the gels etc, then I may not have enough sodium. Sigh.... I guess I am going to have to look into salt tablets.
Agree re the KISS principle! Watering down the Perform is a consideration. I wonder if this would adversely affect absorption from the stomach?
I'm so glad I came across this thread as I am also experimenting with different approaches to nutrition for my upcoming HIM and am wrestling with similar issues. I had QT2 formulate nutrition plans for me, but I've been concerned about what I see as the VERY high caloric intake of those plans, particularly for HIM.
Based on a predicted 2:35:00 bike split, QT2 HIM plan calls for:
1/2 Power Bar (115 Calories)
2 Powergels (220 Calories)
6 Cliff Bloks (200 Calories)
72 oz Sports Drink (1 Scoop of IM Perform/8 oz = 9 Scoops = 630 Cal)
TOTAL = 1165 Calories/2440 mg Sodium (451 Calories/Hour; 945 mg Sodium/Hour)
Obviously, this is WAY higher than the recommendations on the EN Wiki. Given that I, too, want to maintain an IF in the .82-.83 range, I'm concerned that all of this nutrition will prove to be a gut buster that ends up on the side of the road.
In the interest of keeping hydration in the 25-30 oz/hour range and getting the caloric intake down closer to EN recommended levels, I went with the watered down IM Perform approach during my 30 minute run followed by 3 hour bike (trainer w/ light fan; pretty sweaty!) this weekend. Here is what I took in:
Pre - 1/2 banana, 8 oz coffee, 1/4 cup almond milk, 8 oz water (approx 170 calories)
Run - nothing
Bike -
2 Powergels w/ Caffeine (220 Calories)
84 oz Sports Drink (1 Scoop of IM Perform/12 oz = 7 scoops = 490 Cal)
TOTAL = 710 Calories/1800 mg Sodium (237 Calories/Hour; 600 mg Sodium/Hour)
I won't say I felt ready to head out on a 13.1 mile run after getting off the bike, but I didn't feel particularly depleted either.
I'm more inclined to attribute my reduced energy level coming off the bike to the low pre-workout calories and the early Z4 intervals that were part of the bike workout (contributing to a 209 TSS when my HIM goal TSS is around 169).
I don't think I had any absorption issues with the watered down IM Perform. My understanding is that the reverse is typically the problem (i.e., too many scoops/too little water) due to changes in osmolality that require blood shunt to the gut to process.
In terms of boosting salt, my thinking is either to: (a) pop two saltstick caps in T1 - that will give me 430mg more salt, bringing me to 766 mg/hour; or (b) swap out one of the gels with a 6 pack of Clif Bloks Margarita - that will give me 220mg more salt (bringing me to 685 mg/hour) plus an additional 70 calories (bringing me to 265 calories/hour).
I'm leaning toward the saltstick caps in T1, which is what I'm planning to try during my upcoming RR.
Kevin- welcome aboard!
Diluting the perform seems like a good idea, but I don't know how I could accomplish that during the HIM, since they hand out (as I understand) regular strength perform and water. I just can't see myself going through an aid station and then mixing up water and perform in the appropriate amounts.
Based on the amount of weight I lost during the recent RR (4 lbs), I figure I need about 44oz/hr of fluid. If I use two 24 oz standard bottles of perform and 2 water bottles per hour I would get the fluid I need, but then the question is calories and salt. Based on the EN guidance, (2 power gels 15' prior to swim) then 60 oz Perform over 2.5 hrs and 60oz of water + 2 gels and 3 shot bloks (50 and 100 and 140 minutes- washed down with water), I would get approx 327 calories/hr and 7060mg sodium/hr over 3.2 hours based on 35minute swim and 2:40 bike. For the bike alone, it would be 362 cal/hr! So that's too many calories. But If I cut out the gel, then I don't get enough Na. If I drink just perform and no water, its WAY too many calories.
It looks like I will need to supplement salt with a tablet or two I think. The extra sodium shot blok is also a good idea.
Thinking forward to the race a tentative plan is to carry two bottles of perform (48 oz, 420 cal), pick up water at 1 aid station each hour (60 and 120 minutes?), drink as much as I can and maybe take a gel, then stow the leftover water in a behind the seat cage to use down the road.
Hmmm. I wonder if I can make a 2.4hr bottle of perform? 5 scoops?
@ Kevin, It seems to me that you are tweaking the QT2 before you even have your RR , putting the cart before the horse.
Thanks David! Yes it occurred to me I would have to make up the volume if I carry a bottle of concentrate. I'm going to try this out on some long training rides.
SATISH - I've experimented a little bit with highly concentrated bottles - mainly mixing Powergels with water in a 24 oz bottle. As David says, if you go this route you have to be sure to chase it with enough water to stay at the right osmolality. Otherwise, you'll be depriving your muscles of the blood they need because it will be shunted to the gut to aid digestion. Plus, after a few hours, the concentrated bottle tasted like sludge and I really had to MAKE myself take sips off of it. This is why I'm moving away from this approach.
INFINIT - There are lots of success stories with Infinit. I've tried it and find that the flavors leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth when I start running. Plus, my recollection is that the scoop they send you with Infinit is HUGE compared to the one that comes in IM Perform. So, 3 scoops of Infinit in a 24 oz bottle is going to be like syrup compared to 3 scoops of IM Perform in the same bottle. Ultimately, with Ironman events as the focus of my season and IM Perform/Powergels being provided at aid stations, I'm sticking with those products because I don't really see a good reason to bring my own nutrition to what is, essentially, a catered affair.
David - that's what I'm going to try. Added bonus I won't be splashing sports drink on my self trying to fill up my aero bottle. For th race if I have 24 oz of concentrate on my frame and one aerobar bottle full of water, I will need 3 x 24 oz bottles of water on the course. Sounds pretty doable!
It usually dissolves VERY well, no sludgy "powder balls" that get ingested (like my Endurox usually does).
I use the downtube and seattube bottles for somewhat-concentrated infinit, and an aero bottle for pure water. Take one swig of concentrate, plus one swig of water. Top water off at every aid station if you can.
Thanks for the input everyone and keep it coming! Nutrition is clearly not a 'one size fits all' proposition and as someone new to to the distance it's great to see everyone's varied approaches to the problem.
Time: 2:09:11 (this is my total moving time; I had to stop briefly at one point because a bug went right into the front vent on my helmet!)
Distance: 46.31 miles
Avg Power: 204W
Normalized Power: 210W
Avg Speed: 21.3 mph
Avg Cadence: 95 RPM
TSS: 146.2
IF: 0.824
Post-Bike Run: 30 minutes at 7:58/mile (NGP = 7:50/mile)
It was 80-85 degrees during this bike/run session. I was sweatin' like crazy on the run!
Here is how nutrition went for me
BREAKFAST: I had one banana with coffee and almond milk before leaving the house (approximately 146 calories).
PRE-RIDE: I took two SaltStick tablets (430 mg sodium) and half a PowerBar (115 Calories; 100 mg sodium) before starting the bike
RIDE: During the ride, I drank 58 oz of water mixed with 5 scoops of IM Perform (350 Calories; 1000 mg sodium). I also had one Powergel Latte (110 Calories; 200 mg sodium) and 6 Clif Bloks (200 Calories; 140 mg sodium)
TOTAL HYDRATION: 58 oz (27 oz/hour); Given the heat today, this could've been higher - maybe another 10 oz.
TOTAL CALORIES PRE-RIDE/RIDE: 775 Calories (360.5 Calories/hour); This felt like the right amount from a tolerably diverse combination of sources. No gut issues starting or during the run. Didn't feel particularly full or hungry as I laced up my running shoes.
TOTAL SODIUM PRE-RIDE/RIDE: 1870 mg sodium (870 mg sodium/hour); Again, no problems here. I think the two SaltStick tabs pre-ride may be the ticket for me.
So, for my race rehearsal this coming Saturday, my plan is to stick fairly close to these per hour intake amounts by adding: (i) another 24 oz bottle with 2 scoops of IM Perform (140 Calories; 400 mg sodium); and (ii) another Powergel Latte (110 Calories; 200 mg sodium).
For a 2:40 bike split, this will put me at 82 oz fluid (30.75 oz/hour); 1025 Calories (384.4 Calories/hour); and 2470 mg sodium (926.3 mg sodium/hour)
Surprise! Surprise! After all that tinkering, I ended up very close to the QT2 plan after all!
Latest bike workout (2.5 hrs on trainer with FTP sessions IF .8, 160 TSS), the ambient temperature was 72F so I was sweating quite a lot. No gels before but breakfast about 30 minutes prior to workout.
I did one '2.5' hr bottle of Perform (24 oz) with 9 scoops: 153g CHO, 630 Kcal (252Calories /hr) , 1710mg Na (684/hr) and three 24 oz bottles of water. 96 oz of fluid total. Workout went well, more energy at end of workout than at the beginning, and no gastric troubles, but the extra sweet concentrated Perform took a bit of getting used to. Large sweat puddles. Weight prior was 153.6, after was 151.5, so I lost 2 pounds. I probably should have had at least 1 - 1.5 more bottles of water.
Satish - Glad to hear you're hitting a good nutrition spot, too. You've decided not to divide up those IM Perform scoops among the 4 bottles because your plan is to just pick up water along the route? I think that is what you've said earlier in this thread...
@Kevin: Yeah, my plan at the moment is to start the race with my concentrated bottle on the downtube and water in my bta bottle, then I'll take on water at aid stations: pick up bottle(s), drink/pour on face and head, refill bta bottle with remainder. I have no bottle cage on my seat tube so I am going to put a behind the seat cage on (empty) and use it if necessary to store bottles. I plan on putting 1 or more salt-tabs and an emergency gel and shot bloks in the bento box. at the moment I don't think I will need the gel, but i might use the 3 bloks at the 2:20-2:30 range for something solid(er) in my stomach.
David- thanks for your input and advice! (this is what makes EN great!)
I followed the QT2 pre-race nutrition by having 3 cups of unsweetened apple sauce, 1 banana, 1 serving of Caprotein (goat whey) protein powder, 1 x 24 oz bottle of IM Perform (3 scoops) and one cup of coffee with a 1/4 cup of unsweetened almond milk about 3 hours before starting my ride.
Perfect weather today - 67 degrees and sunny with just enough cross wind to be annoying
Bike Data
Time: 2:39:45
Distance: 56.24 miles
Avg Speed: 21.13 mph
Avg Cadence: 102 RPM
Avg Power: 210W
Normalized Power: 214W
Variability Index: 1.02
TSS: 186.8
IF: 0.838
Calories Burned: 2015 kj
Pre/On Bike Nutrition:
TOTAL CALORIES: 1065 Calories (399.4 Calories/Hour)
TOTAL SODIUM: 2470 mg Sodium (926.3 mg Sodium/Hour)
Here is the breakdown of what went into my face hole:
Pre Ride: 1/2 Powerbar (Berry): 115 Calories; 100 mg Sodium
Pre Ride: 2 Saltstick Tablets: 430 mg Sodium
During Ride: 3 Powergels Latte: 330 Calories; 600 mg Sodium
During Ride: 6 Clif Bloks: 200 Calories; 140 mg Sodium
During Ride: 3 x 24 oz bottles of IM Perform with 2 scoops per bottle: 420 Calories; 1200 mg Sodium
Post-Ride Run
Time: 47:24
Distance: 6.0 Miles
Avg Pace: 7:54/Mile
Nutrition: I drank a bit of water from a FuelBelt handheld during the run, but didn't have anything else.
One pee break between bike and run. I don't think I have ever felt better running off of the bike. From start to finish, the run felt very fluid and low effort - ended up being right on my HMP. I think this is the plan that is going to work for me at my 70.3 in two weeks!