Home Coaching Forum 🧢

Juan Vergara's Micro Forum

1246710

Comments

  • IM Run pacing question: the 4 keys pace chart says with a 50 Vdot, best possible race day time is 3:43:34. If I then plug that time into the EN Marathon Pace Planner, it says my initial pace should be 5:28 mpk (first 8k) and then  5:15 mpk. However, if I follow the written instruction it say I should initially add 30 second per mile (or 18.75 per km) to Z1 which means, first 8k at  5:20 + :19 = 5:29 mpk (or 15 seconds slower than the planner output) and then  5:20 versus 5:15. The end result is just a couple minutes difference overall but ..... a couple minutes could make the difference so I thought I should ask the question anyway ..... 




  • for those of you interested in this, I gave a really long winded answer in tonight's coach Chat...about 8 minutes in if you want to skip ahead!! https://plus.google.com/u/3/events/c43r67m6vj2sem1iqqvl5l1v8dg
  • Patrick, following your HR comment on the chat last night, I paid a lot of attention to my HR during RUN RR today (IM WEEK 17), and was wondering how do I interpret for race day purposes?????
    Today I ran 29.5 k (18.3 miles) in 2:24:46, strictly following guidance (+30 seconds first hour, pace second hour, best effort last 24 minutes) and eating/drinking exactly as prescribed by CoreDiet plan.
    Average during first two hours was 118 (rising only to 130+ during last 24 minutes). Average HR for my bike RR1 was 130.
    Any HR guidance you might be able to give me (based on the above) would be great.
    Tks
  • REFRAMING MY QUESTION given I have since read all your HR material on Wiki (plus received some good feedback via forum) and therefore specifically now ask: if my Z2 is 122-139 (therefore lower half 122-130) and assuming my bike HR avg on race day where to be 130-135, then my target Run HR on race day would be 135-140 (+- RPE) and that target HR I pursue already out of T2?
  • Juan, you are just the best....love that you dig deeper, improve and come back with more...no wonder you are so successful at what you do. So the "racing run HR" is higher than the average long run due to the 2.4-mile swim and 112-mile bike. So yes, you will be at 130 off the bike...and you know you can hit that. So you can run up to 140...depends on your comfort...just run and look at HR. If it's HOT, then the HR will be higher automatically, and will act as a natural governor on your speed. When you start to notice the HR drop over the day, then you need to focus on blood sugar / caffeine to keep the engine revving. Since I drink lots of coffee, I use caffeine gels all day...

    Remember you really need to get cool in last bike aid station or two, tons of water over you head/body and same at Aid Station #1 on the run...I don't know hot Cabos will be, but probably good to have that in your back pocket.
  • Patrick,
    IM week 17 long ride today .... suppposed to be 5hours but called it a day at 4:15 when i felt my legs were NO LONGER in agreement with my power meter!!!!
    QUESTION: I guess that level of fatigue at this point is normal?
    Wonder how i will be next week for RR2!!!!
  • One extra question:
    For your birthday I'm planning to do my second long run of the week and test the HR target proposed.
    My question is if under HR guidance, the first 6 miles are at a lower HR target? Or I should pursue the HR target from the start of the run???
  • @Juan, time to REST. Hopefully you TAKE FRIDAY OFF...rest baby. The HR target doesn't work really without a bike before it...but you would run at that HR steady all day, yes..this is best tested in a RR situation!
  • Patrick, i´m fine tunning the plan for RR2 on thursday and have one last question given I will test running based on HR target of 140.

    The following are the numbers from RR1 6 mile run: first half, running at race pace + 30 seconds, HR increased gradually from an average 121bpm first 5 minutes to 137-139 on mile 3. Pace remained stable from there on and average HR for the second half was 141 (very stable).

    The question/doubt: should I go out a bit faster to achieve 140 faster and the maintain 140??? Or use the same pace as in RR1 and once 140 is achieved stay on it flat. ????

    Kindly advice

  • @Juan, roll into it. Remember on race day you will have additional stimuli in other racers, T2, etc, that will artificially jack that HR up. If anything, you might need to work on DROPPING that HR at the end of the Bike and early run (dousing self with water at aid stations to drop core body temperature) and strategic early aid station walking, etc.

    Just remember to keep the run shoes dry as best you can...bend over and dump water on your head, etc....
  • Hello P,
    looking at new 4 WEEK transition program I need "TRANSLATION HELP" for week two SWIM as described below ... the main set description sounds like Chinese to me (or maybe my brain has been affected by the IM effort?????) .... kindly point me in the right direction for better understanding .....

    Wednesday 60 min
    WU: 200 swim, 200 pull, 100 kick, 3 x 50 (15") Swim Golf

    MS: Position Progression: 8 x {2 x 50 (15")}. Each set of two 50's is a Step in Position Progression. 2 x 50 (15") Swim Golf Propulsion Progression: 5 x {2 x 50 (15")}. Each set of two 50's is a Step in the Propulsion Progression 100 easy 2 x 50 (15") Swim Golf. 6 x 50 (20") as 25 Strong, 25 Easy

    CD: 200 easy.
  • @Juan I will point Rich here to sort this out!!!
  • Hey Juan,

    Those progressions are a series of drills that you can find in the swim clinic ebook, which you can download from the Swim section of the wiki. Good luck!
  • Hello P,
    I Bregman reading the 3 year plan (year 3) and stopped where it said: "You have completed three or more Ironman races".
    Question: might 4 x 70.3 and 1 x 140.6 (all FOP finishes) qualify me for year 3 phase???
    Or should I pick it up from year 2???
    How best to use the resource for my next race IMFL Nov. 1st???
    All the best
    Juan
  • Juan - you are in that unique place where your intellect and savvy put you at the three-year level, but it's your body that I'm worried about. Part of the reason that it's a three-year plan is to give us time to build you up to the place where you can sustain it.

    "It" being a year-long project built around run durability and total fitness.

    Of course your lifestyle and commitment to give you more bandwidth than the average bear. Maybe you and I should have a conversation about how we can come up with a modified version for the short time that we have to train now Florida. Thoughts?
  • P,
    The following is my rescent planning discussion with Rich, leading to IMFL (explaining what's in my schedule between now and then and Rich's answer in UPPER CASE for you to be on the same page):
    -----------
    Having completed my first IM on Sunday, it is time to plan forward.
    Next will be IMFL Nov.1st (A race), with a C bike race in a few weeks just for fun (NY Gran Fondo May 18th).
    My plan, for your critique is as follows:
    Total rest 2 weeks (current plus one). PnI LOADED UP A 4wk POST-IM TRANSITION TRAINING PLAN YESTEDAY. CHECK IT OUT, ITS IN YOUR TRAINING PLAN DROP DOWN MENU.
    Initiate Gran Fondo specific prep 4/14 (with a bit of running couple times a week, no swimming).
    Between GFNY and IMFL I have 23 weeks, however there is a 3 week vacation to Africa in the middle where training will be quite limited !(just run weeks 2 and 3).
    Therefore I was planning:
    8 weeks GF SOUNDS GOOD
    3 weeks Africa trip (run only) USE THE RUN FOCUS PLAN FOR THIS.
    12 weeks IM advanced. YEP.
    -------------
    That said, and back to my question am I year two or year three, I have given it some thought after your last response and the following are my thoughts:
    - I'm already signed up for NYGF and I'm looking forward to it.
    - I'm already signed up of IMFL and I'm looking forward to it.
    - I'm already signed up for the 3 week family trip to Africa and I'm looking forward to it
    - thus, t looks that there is not much I can do different than what I discussed with Rich above between now and IMFL.

    Therefore I rephrase my questions as follows:

    1) Is there anything you would like to see me do different between now and IMFL?

    2) I would like to start planning 2015 and kindly request your input regarding ideal for me race selection (no later than May/early June) and work towards stepping up my performance from FOP (top ten last 3 races, 2xHIM / 1xIM) to podium finish.

    Thoughts?
  • Thanks for the detail, these are great questions. I wish your level of detail and thoroughness was contagious. :-)

    Your schedule is somewhat limited through Florida, but there's still time to be a little more detailed. I honestly would have you ride your bike only through GFNY. Become a cycling monster. Four good rides a week...short 20-30' runs in Zone 2.

    Then you can do a little speed work before you head off to a run focus block while in Africa. That's a great time to do some serious core working flexibility work as well to repair you. Then we can talk about more modified plan for Florida they said how you do it. If you need more input on that I'm happy to do it on the phone or something.
  • Tks for your reply P. Will report after NYGF.

  • Back to training for IMFL as of next WEEK after a very enjoyable Gran Fondo NY on Sunday!!!
    Beginning Monday with 7 weeks of GF advanced before goin to Africa for 3 week family vacation (which as you might recall is a three week core and run only period).

    Major "improvement" being introduced in my training is serious Functional/Core training with coach twice a week (Tuesdays and Thursdays). Thus, I have a question: given GF tuesdays and Thursdays are Bike/Run or Run/Bike days, does the order make a huge difference? Or is it OK to always run first - followed by bike - which makes much more logistical sense for me.

    And an important follow up question: given I am skipping week one of GF (currently traveling) I have two options:
    1) start on GF week 2 and not test, picking it up at my last test pre-IMLC and work with those FTP/Vdot as base and see what comes out in week 8 testing (which was my plan before deciding to ask this question to the boss ....) .... or,
    2) start on GF week 1, testing as prescribed and skip week 2 (or any other week you might determine)
  • Can't imagine you getting stronger!! :) yes to no testing, you know your numbers. Run first on Tues/Thurs is totally ok.
  • Patrick,
    As I begin my IMFL journey today with 7 weeks of GF advanced, followed by 3 weeks of "Africa Travel" (first 1.5 weeks core only, second 1.5 weeks run/core only), followed by 12 weeks IM advanced, I have been taking a closer look at top five performances and evidently I have to "run faster" to hit my 10:50:00 target (versus 11:24 at IMLC).
    Obviously that is a combination of:
    1) slow down less than .... (disciplined bike/run execution & nutrition).
    2) actually get faster!!!!!
    That said, what other than following EN standard plans (GF, IM, Run Focus) can I do??? Notedly, I have began serious core/flexibility work 4 weeks ago.
    #iwantkona
  • Juan - past performance is the best indicator of future performance. :-) I could advise you, but your experience at LC will be a much better indicator of where there are opportunities for improvement.

    Let's not also forget that Florida is a different course than Cabo.

    I suggest you take a look at the "revenge" protocol from the wiki on what it means to structure your seconds Training cycle. That said, good things to focus on for IM Florida would be steady-state intervals in a slightly bigger chain ring for all that TT time -- aka 80 toms vs your usual 85-90, etc.

    Let me know once you have read that article and we can proceed from there.
  • Patrick,

    Following your advice below I read:  (1) the Official Ironman Revenge Protocol (2) my pre IMLC RR reports, (3) my IMLC race report and conclude that:

    a.    I had the fitness – and the confidence - arriving in IMLC to deliver sub 11 (as demonstrated by my RR’s 1 and 2).

    b.    I swam faster than expected (keep it up!!!)

    c.     T1 and T2 were faster than expected (slow is smooth and smooth is fast)

    d.    I slowed down significantly during last 1/3 of the bike allegedly for not having power readings on the screen (scared of blowing it and not smart enough to cross check with HR which was obviously low). Execution, execution, execution!!!

    e.    I screwed up the run out of the gate and even though I did not walk, second half was increasingly slow (I felt I had the aerobic fitness but my legs would not respond). EXECUTION, EXECUTION, EXECUTION!!!

    f.      Believe nutrition was not an issue.

    Therefore, if I want to deliver sub 11 at IMFL I have to:

    i.      Arrive in Panama Beach with the same level of fitness and EXECUTE THE EN NINJA WAY …. ALL DAY!!!! Period!!!

    ii.     Take in consideration it will be a flatter race and take advantage but prepare accordingly:

    a.    Gain a bit of aero by lowering front as previously discussed with Todd (done right after IMLC).

    b.    More indoor trainer hours to better simulate Florida flatness and long periods of sustained race pace on flat surface.

    To do so I will:

    1st.     Train as already planned:

    a.    8 weeks GF ADV –

    b.    3 weeks Africa trip core only first 1.5 / run and core only second 1.5

    c.     12 weeks IM ADV.

    2nd.   Disciplined core and flexibility training (with coach) to minimize injury and maximize use of key muscle groups (already in progress)

    As for #iwantkona ….. I certainly do …. But starting TODAY and all the way the finish line I remember: it’s just a game ….. I must and will have fun …. focus in the process and let the outcome be ….

    That’s it!!! (unless you instruct differently!!!!).





  • Patrick,

    Following your advice below I read:  (1) the Official Ironman Revenge Protocol (2) my pre IMLC RR reports, (3) my IMLC race report and conclude that:

    I had the fitness – and the confidence - arriving in IMLC to deliver sub 11 (as demonstrated by my RR’s 1 and 2).

    I swam faster than expected (keep it up!!!)

    T1 and T2 were faster than expected (slow is smooth and smooth is fast)

    I slowed down significantly during last 1/3 of the bike allegedly for not having power readings on the screen (scared of blowing it and not smart enough to cross check with HR which was obviously low). Execution, execution, execution!!!

    I screwed up the run out of the gate and even though I did not walk, second half was increasingly slow (I felt I had the aerobic fitness but my legs would not respond). EXECUTION, EXECUTION, EXECUTION!!!

    Believe nutrition was not an issue.

    Therefore, if I want to deliver sub 11 at IMFL I have to:

    Arrive in Panama Beach with the same level of fitness and EXECUTE THE EN NINJA WAY …. ALL DAY!!!!Period!!!

    Take in consideration it will be a flatter race and take advantage but prepare accordingly:

    Gain a bit of aero by lowering front as previously discussed with Todd (done right after IMLC).

    More indoor trainer hours to better simulate Florida flatness and long periods of sustained race pace on flat surface.

    To do so I will:

    Train as already planned:

    8 weeks GF ADV –

    3 weeks Africa trip core only first 1.5 / run and core only second 1.5

    12 weeks IM ADV.

    Disciplined core and flexibility training (with coach) to minimize injury and maximize use of key muscle groups (already in progress)

    As for #iwantkona ….. I certainly do …. But starting TODAY and all the way the finish line I remember: it’s just a game ….. I must and will have fun …. focus in the process and let the outcome be ….

    That’s it!!! (unless you instruct differently!!!!).









  • You got it!! The specifics will come as we progress through your year....let's do this!!!
  • P,
    I asked same question on chat but you were off-line by then I guess. Here it goes again (with a bit more detail):
    Refreshing your memory: I'm now 17 weeks out to IMFL, ending GF 8 week advanced this week and taking off to Africa on Monday July 14th for a 3 week (run and core only) trip, where I will do practically NO running first 12 days (except for a guided run with the natives I have been able to schedule in the middle of the wild!!!! Should be EPIC!!!). Then I will be back in the modern world with hotel treadmills at my disposal.
    I will be doing my core routines every other day and here goes the question:
    WHICH TYPE OF RUNS should I focus on during this period to "regain" my fitness and go back to IM race prep upon return??
    - Interval 4 x 1 mile runs ???
    - alternate those with longer Z2 runs???
    Two important notes:
    1) I avoid as much as possible runs without a 48 hour interval in between given my stress fractures history.
    2) I'm not targeting being a faster runner at IMFL but a smarter one. I'm happy with my 50 Vdot but must use it better this time around. I've been working on glute activation and increased cadence from high 80s to 90+.
    Kindly advice
    Regards,
    Juan
  • Juan -- I sent you a PM when I saw your chat. Did you not get it?
  • Yes i did thank You.
    "run durability block — 45' to 60' a session in solid zone two"
  • Hi P,

    Back from Africa last night!!! 

    The good news: THE TRIP WAS BEYOND EPIC!!! if you ever have ther chance to do it with your kids ... it´s one they will never forget!!! (happy to share all the learnings when time comes!!!). 

    The "bad" news: I obvioulsy did not manage to do all the work I had planned and net-net, being 12 weeks out to IMFL, when compared to the same week before my last race (IMLC ) my CLT is 8% lower (127.5 versus 138.2), my ALT is 42% of what I had then (57.7 versus 135.6) and my TSB today is 68.3 verus zero.

    That said "it-is-what-it-is" and I assume there is no point in working harder than what´s prescribed in the IM Adv plan but rather stay HEALTHY and work "the mind" to compensate with better execution!!!!

    ANY IDEAS????

Sign In or Register to comment.