Joule vs WKO+

Scott Alexander

I've had this problem for a while, and have vented my frustration here too at one time or another. I don't mind it too much when the difference between my Joule 2.0 and WKO+ are miniscule; but when there's a significant discrepancy it frustrates me.

Both the Joule (via power agent) and WKO+ have my FTP set at the same value, 300.

Where on earth are these differences coming from?

Todays' ride:

Joule	WKO+
TSS 162.8	142.9
Pnorm 233	243
IF .777	.811

Dino Sarti

This will drive you nuts! Pick one standard and stick with it. Often consistency is better than accuracy.

Based on your numbers above, the Joule seems wonky. How could it have MORE TSS and a LOWER Pnorm and IF for a ride of the same duration? I don't have a calculator handy (on iPad right now), but if you run the simple numbers which works and which does not?

Stick with WKO+. They are the guys that invented the concepts any way....

Scott Alexander

Riding "real time", I've got to use the Joule - it's the only thing on my bike!

Today's ride:

Joule	WKO+
TSS 203.6	181.4
Pnorm 230	238
IF .767	.793

WTF is going on?!?

Al Truscott

Are you treating the zeros differently in the Joule setup compared to the TrainingPeaks setup? What happens to the data if you donwload it into PowerAgent?

Scott Alexander

@Al, I don't know how to alter settings in WKO+, that would make it different. Where would I do that?

I just imported the .bin file into PowerAgent (never done that before), for todays workout and got:
Pnorm 231
IF .770
TSS 205.4
Much closer, but not exactly matching, to the Joule than to WKO+.

Dino Sarti

Garmin 500.... Super cheap now that the 510 is out....

Scott Alexander

Bump...



Looking to figure this out before my longest and hardest workouts hit me for IMMT in the near future!!!

I also posted in a training peaks forum, searching for any answer!

Scott Alexander

After sending Training Peaks some of my various Joule files (.bin format), power agent uploads and WKO readings, this is the feedback they come up with:

I uploaded some of the files to TrainingPeaks and WKO and got very similar numbers which leads me to believe the issue is with data/thresholds not being the same across all platforms.

For the normalized power not matching up I see that there are two large pauses in this file which would affect the data being reported. I would recommend leaving the device running next time for the most accurate data. This is also the case with average power as different software will handle the missing data in different ways.

As far as IF and TSS go, this is calculated of of threshold, if your threshold is not set the same in WKO, your Joule, and Power Agent then you will get discrepancies. Please make sure that your threshold is set the same in each place and note that there may still be a little variance between the sources depending on how far out the decimals in the calculation are carried.

I love it how sometimes customer service folks must think you're an idiot - which I'm not. OF COURSE my FTP is set the same in all three places (Power Agent pushes the FTP value to the Joule).

But I still can't figure out what the issue is here?!? 

Looking at my user profile in Power Agent, there's a Peak Power value for 4 mins and 30mins. Where do I get these values? I know I can set the FTP manually without updating the 4 or 30 min values, but if you do use the 4/30 it populates a different number for you (based on what formula, I don't know!)

Scott Alexander

More info from TP folks:

I asked around and it seems that unfortunately there has been an issue with the way that PowerAgent calculates TSS for some time. Due to this you will not be able to get to the neighborhood of having similarities until CycleOps corrects this.

Great! Now I've got nothing except to WAIT (patience is not a virtue I possess loads of).