getting faster at LC

bc4ua

In keeping with wiki post of taking a multi-year approach to improving long course racing, I had a question. My local friends and I have been kicking this thought around.

My non-EN buddy had an awesome day at the b2b full last year, and I think in 2-3 years he could KQ. But the question is what is the best way to get the FTP/VDOT up high enough before stretching out the training to be competitive for a spot.

Is it better to have a period of focusing on short course/outseason type work that raises your FTP? Or do a string of 70.3s that mix speed/endurance? Then return to fulls?

Thanks for any input

Peter Greagg

I think the EN approach is the best way of improving year on year.

The EN approach has us pushing up our FTP and Vdot in the OS with minimal hours of training — because training hours are at a minimum consistent with maximising the FTP and Vdot gains, this approach allows the maximum recovery to allow the adaption to continue. A further benefit of this approach is that it minimises the mental effort of training in this phase.

Research shows that most (almost all/all?) adaption occurs in to 6 to 8 weeks. Therefore you need to change the training stress after that time in order to continue to push up your FTP and Vdot. That is why the OS has a mix of FTP and VO2 max work with increasing intensity and some volume.

After the OS has squeezed most of the improvement possible over a 3 to 4 month period, if you want to continue to improve, you need to change up the training stimulus again. For me, I think the GF plan works well after the OS — a bit more volume but not so much as causing a fatigue impact on my ability to do the high intensity like an IM plan might. Also, the GF plan has a nice mix of FTP and VO2 max work.

By this stage in the season the mental side of things could start to become a problem without some sort of goal where I can showcase my current speed. So I like to then target a HIM with an 8 week build, then 2 week stand down, and then an 8 week build for my A Race, and IM.

YMMV.

russG

Hi Brandon - The EN approach is generally fast then far - I would extend that thinking to the year-over-year approach. Shorter course emphasizes building and testing speed; longer course emphasizes endurance based on whatever speed you have. If I wanted to KQ, I'd focus on Olympic Distance, which is high intensity but at a long enough distance to be more than a warm-up. Second choice would be Half Distance. Both races have less recovery time and lower injury risk than IM distance, which means they are less disruptive to continuing training. Once my performance indicators at these distances were where I thought they needed to be, I'd move up and start working on the endurance.

Hope this helps. Best of luck to your buddy.

cgres123

Both very good answers as the progressive overload of exercise allows the body to adapt to the training stresses your are putting on it. Periodzation is what EN plans are all about x amount of time doing z then , after 5-6 weeks switching things up to give the body different stimulus for your goal. One thing to keep in mind, as that kind of training has its limits. By that I mean in the beginning you will progress like smooth sailing but then comes a point where gains are very difficult to come by as you are near your optimal performance. So keeping that in mind don't think you can stay a X stimulus and keep on getting faster forever and bingo Kona qual, not so much I think.

Dave Tallo

I would focus on half marathons on 40k tts. My 46-year-old brother is facing the same question as your friend, and when he eventually gets to racing IMs, he's going to be a freakin' monster. However, I'm not going to let him join EN until he has two seasons of the above under his belt.

Unknown

Interesting post.

If you want to raise your FTP, Vdot, CSS, you need to stress all the systems.

I am no different than the average joe triathlete and was able to reach a 4 + Wkg FTP in less than 8 months - going from zero biking/training/running. Primarily this was done through FTP work which is great but I hit a plateau at which time I introduced some seriously long endurance rides. After doing this, my old FTP became relatively easy.

A great article on this is one written by Hunter Allen "The next level" (excerpt attached below). The five hour ride has it's place just like the FTP, V02, and sprint work.

"If you want to go to the next level though, you are going to have to figure out how to squeeze it in….. and doing (2) separate rides in one day is not going to do it. You have to get in (2) big rides each month and preferably (3) big rides. Rides that are at least 5-6 hours long that force you to dig deep near the end, so that when you reach home, you are tired and your muscles are quivering(not cramping though) from the fatigue. This is the #1 thing you can do and you cannot skip this step if you want to go to the next level, no matter if you are a pro or a recreational cyclist, you have to increase the miles, hours, and overall volume of training stress in order to challenge your cardiovascular and muscular system enough to create positive adaptations for the future. Those longer rides enhance your endurance and there is no substitute for them. I have listened to countless stories of riders talking about how they just can’t improve any more no matter how many intervals they do or how many group rides they ride in, yet they never do rides that are 5 hours or longer."

bc4ua

Thanks for the replies guys. Good discussion.

I do like the fast before far approach, it made sense when I was only running. I enjoyed my first outseason with EN, and felt it set me up well into a full plan where I got a nice bit of volume in. So looking forward I'm excited to start another round of fitness building.

The idea of focusing on olympic/13.1/40k distance sounds smart. Training isn't crazy, the intensity is good, and it's fun to go fast.

Thanks for the Coogan blip Robert. I do like the idea of throwing in big volume admist all this intensity work. My next goal is the 4+ w/kg level. My buddy and I are pretty similiar fitness wise, but we're leaving too much time on the table on the bike. We're both around ~3.5 right now, and losing more weight isn't an option. Time to work

russG

http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/2010/12/next-level.html

Worth reading. Thanks, Robert!

Gordon Cherwoniak

I'm in no way fast or qualified to answer this questions but stepping down to shorter distances Oly or half is definitely would allow you to focus on getting more speed. 

As mentioned at a certain point you get to plateaus so you need to induce different training stimulus big bike and tri weeks, run and bike focus blocks and more swimming if that's a weakness. 

If I recall correctly when Mattt Ancona stepped back to to HIM for a season to get some speed, he went and joined a track club and ran with some fast guys to get his running to another level.  The key here is in that focused block getting some motivation to push even harder and that group of fast guys which is probably outside your regular training buddies.

Al Truscott

Posted By Brandon Cantrell on 05 Jun 2013 03:43 PM
My non-EN buddy had an awesome day at the b2b full last year, and I think in 2-3 years he could KQ. But the question is what is the best way to get the FTP/VDOT up high enough before stretching out the training to be competitive for a spot.</p>

In this sport, espeically the long distance version, we are each an on going eperiment where n=1. We each come into triathlon with our own unique background,strengths and weaknesses. So what works for me, may not work for you and vice versa. So I don't think there's a single right answer to this question, other than almost all of us need years of focused work to become "competitive for a spot".

All I can really speak to is what worked for me, as an example. I started triathlon with a strong swimming background, years of long distance bike touring and anaerobic mountain biking, but zero running and racing experience. So I spent a lot of effort running, at all speeds and distances, and learned through experience "how to race". For me, there was a great value in competing at all distances and types of tris, as well as running races. I did sprints, Olys, HIMs, and IMs, as well as Xterras. I learned after about seven years that I was most competitive at IM, so I eventually gravitated there and found my best success. I did not follow a distance progression, but just kept plugging away over the years, naturally using the method of switching up my training every 2-4 months.

I would advise not starting out with a specific distance in mind, but to (a) work hard on weaknesses, (b) leverage strengths and (c) discover your passion and follow it. A superb swimmer with loads of speed may find the Olympic distance most rewarding, or a strong mountain biker who likes mid might enjoy Xterras most of all.

Steve West

Posted By Al Truscott on 06 Jun 2013 11:31 AM

... (a) work hard on weaknesses, (b) leverage strengths and (c) discover your passion and follow it. ...

[A little off topic....]

What a powerful yet simple way to frame an approach to life, any life.  Be it triathlon, carpentry, or painting.

Thanks Al for the perspective and quote.

Coach Rich

All excellent points from the members, thanks! Notes:

• Over the years we've learned that the best way to get very, very fast is to go very, very fast. 
• Keeping your volume low allows you to go faster and absorb the work of going faster, making you faster.
• Fast at short stuff (40k TT, 10k, half marathon) absolutely translates to faster at longer stuff, once you put endurance under it. If you want to call that a season of short course racing, that's cool, but the focus should be on devoting several sessions per week to going very fast and then not doing the training that your friends are doing. Not doing the training allows you to absorb that work and get much faster. 
• Some people accomplish ^this^ through single sport blocks, dropping in and out of the Focus plans, etc.