Run pace after the bike is off the charts
When I do brick workouts with a run after the bike my legs feel really funky and although I try to consciously go slow and take it easy, my running pace is WAY too fast (my Zone 1 is about 10:30 and I am running at 8:15). And I don't get burned out, either. I can keep this pace for 20 mins, which could rarely happen with running just by itself.
So what is going on here? Are my legs freaked out enough that they want to match the cadence on the bike? What are some ways I can slow this down?
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Mike, a couple of questions:
It has to be one of the following
Possibilities include that you're more warmed up after a nice long bike, so you can hit paces you should be. Or perhaps your brain-body link is off, and your perception of how hard 8:15's are is way out of whack (hence the question about HR).
Either way, let's hear what's going on with the above questions, and try to help you out.
Mike
You're not alone with this issue. My lowest PE, fastest runs are brick runs. It's part of the reason so many booger the run in an Ironman; the perception is skewed.
I do the same thing you do... I'm a newbie, but I have noticed that I start running WAY too fast after the bike. I think its just that you are used to things going by at 15-20mph, so when you slow down on the run, things seem like they are going way too slow. Its something to be aware of because it could screw you in the long run.
I'd be curious how you feel on your run-only workouts. How hard does holding an 8:15 feel? For that matter, how does holding your LRP feel? How was your last VDOT test? Were you wiped afterwards? Maybe it wasn't a true representation of your fitness.
Okay, here's some info before I jet out the door:
My heart rate on regular run days at my LRP is about 126-133 (I am almost 40, by the way). My HR for this blazing 8:15 pace is about 140.
During my regular run days, I can hold an 8:15 pace for about, oh, 200 yards or so before I am feeling it. Even when I start out quickly on my runs, let's say at a 9:00 pace, I can hold that for about 15 minutes or so, but need to slow down after that.
When I train at my MP or LRP, I can hold those paces for a very long time. Although I am glad to be done at the end, I honestly feel I could go a lot further if needed. I can hold a conversation, I can take aid, text on the phone (okay, that is not cool, I know).
I am still new to EN, so I haven't done my run testing just yet. I ran a half marathon last November and calculated my VDOT at 33. I plan to do run testing next week.
I am well aware that come race day, i will need to get this wrangled in. And certainly get this tweaked well ahead of time during brick sessions and race rehearsals. But just something I found curious that I never experienced before. Thanks everyone!
Mike,
I think you first step is to do a VDot test so we know exactly where you are, what is "too fast," too slow, etc. One common theme here is that it helps when we all speak the same language...testing and using the data is a big part of that.
No rush, just wait for the next test in your plan or use the advice of the team to help you tweak things in the meantime.
You have no idea
/highjack off...
Rich - The exhaust doesn't fry the bicycle tires?
Another factor is cadence...if you are cranking out 95-100 rpms on the bike, but you run with a much lower cadence of 80-85, then when you get off and start running your legs are probably just trying to keep turning over.
My understanding is that you want to have a nice high cadence in both the run and the bike, and this should help with the pace issues. I would think you would definitely want your run cadence to make its way into the 90s for the sake of efficiency...
Thanks, Coach, for the info. I am still in the early stages of using the EN training plans and getting more familiar with the program. I am not at all worried about this phenomena, but just thought it was interesting.
Oh, and nice rack! I mean, the bike rack. Sweet V-strom. We should go ride sometime...
FYYFF
I'm TwoWheelsGood in the ADV West forum. TE450, DL1000, XT225, looking to sell all and get WR250R. Ride with lots of guys on 950/990's but like the dirt and lightweight too much.
Mike- agree with Rich- when you do your vDot test, please report back in and we can explore this a little further. I'll second Bill's comments- you are not alone if in fact your post-ride runs at Z3/Z4 feel a bit easier. I almost always had to watch the Garmin like a hawk and rail myself back in on those Bricks for whatever reason. I think the high cadence and long warmup have a lot to do with it.
One more hijack of my own thread.... I am mrudy on ADV Pacific NW. Go there and you can see my "before-triathlon's-saved-my-life-weight-loss" photos. You'll see why I had to ride a 950!
Coach! I am a KTM convert. I had WR250F and WR400F before the 450EXC and 950ADV. I liked the WR's, especially the 250F for tight woods enduros, but nothing touched the power, turning and ease of the 450EXC. Only problem now days is that they are so expensive. The WRF is a great bike, though.
I'd love to throw a leg over the TE450. Some of my buddies are selling their KTMs for the Husky. I wonder if there's something going on there?
Okay back to it. I will post my Vdot score next week when I do my testing. I am interested to see what it is, now. Thanks everyone for the info.
Mike, since this is your thread, I guess we can talk motorcycles too
NEMO
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Cali has restrictive rules on what you can ride where, based on emission. Basically, if you have a plated bike it opens up MANY more riding options for you. However, all of the Big Four race bikes, enduros (WR, CRF, YZ, etc) are "green sticker" bikes = you can't get them plated from the dealer = limits the places you can ride them. For many, this is fine, for me, not so much.
KTM and Husky are currently the only manufacturers offering performance, Cali plated, street legal dirtbikes. Lots of people out here riding KTM's with a plate as dirt bike, because they really are dirtbikes. I went with the Husky because it has a close ratio tranny (better in singletrack, I like technical vs high speed desert riding) and was about $1k less than the EXC 450. But as a race bike I'm dealing with oil changes after about every other ride, valve checks every 500-800 miles (easy to do, just a PITA) and frankly a wiring harness that looks like the product of a high school shop class.
So looking to sell it and get a WR250R, not the F. This is Cali plated bike. They took one cylinder off the R1 engine = 5k oil changes, valves at 18k (!), Japanese reliability, finish, dealer support, etc. It's a big horsepower drop from the TE but I've never gotten the TE in a situation where mo' power was the answer. It's the Indian, not the arrow, and the WR has enough to do what I need. I also know guys that are kitting them out for small bike adventure riding: desert tanks, sadlebags, etc. My trip to St George this weekend has me hot to ride dirt from SG to Moab and back after the race, taking 5-6 days. The Husky could do it, but I just don't trust it. It's let me down too many times.
Basically, IMSG, CDA, and AZ offer the opportunity for some VERY cool annual adventures on a small, capable, reliable, plated dirtbike/adventure bike setup.