Aero vs Standard Bottle Use (i.e. Aero vs Convenience)

morpheus

So, I'm starting to tinker with my setup.

In a nutshell...

Training with horizontal standard bottle between the aerobars with Perform + a standard bottle of Perform in my back jersey pocket + a Bontrager Speed Bottle (aero flask shape, ya know) on the downtube with just water.  Usual wko has me drinking about 1 Bottle of Perform and 1/2 bottle of the water per hour.  But, I'm starting to up it to 2 bottles of Perform per hour as we get closer to IMMoo.

On race day, the jersey pocket bottle is not an option.  So, thinking about putting a standard cage on the downtube so that I can reload 2 Performs when needed, and just hit the cold water as I hit the aid stations, mainly to cool off and to swish around a bit.

I love the aero stuff, and it bugs me that I may take a step back in that sense.  

So, I'm wondering what you think about the tradeoff.  Does an aerobottle really matter that much?  I'm sure it helps, but doesn't really accomodate an aggressive nutrition strategy.  A standard bottle cage is easier to pop a handout bottle into.

Paul Hough

Aerobottle is better on the downtube, but NO bottles inside the triangle is best. I put mine on the front/rear only. But I bet you wouldn't be talking more than a minute lost in an IM. If you are more comfortable over the course of an IM with your proposed set-up, and you aren't in a position to KQ, then go for it.

morpheus

Yeah, don't really have a rear option. Specialized Transition seat post and Adamo seat make putting a cage back there a PITA. So, I'm putting my lil' spare kit behind the seat. And, the seat tube in not an option. I don't like carrying alot of weight so a 2 bottle setup makes my happy. I'm happy with the aerobar bottle setup. It's the downtube's bottle that I'm going back and forth on....aero shape vs re-load convenience.

No Kona spot in my future. But, I still want every second in my favor and every right move made for a better run.

Thx!

tgarson

Chris, what distance are we talking about racing, halfs and/or fulls?

My nutrition strategy generally has me targeting up to 2 bottles an hour depending on the temp and conditions so racing with a single bottle mount (between the aerobars) wouldn't be an option, and if you stick with the aero frame bottle, I don't know how you refill that on-course. I assume you can, but that it'd be difficult / potentially cost more time than it saves.

Really, if you cant at least fit a single bottle cage behind your seat, you don't have much of an option other than replacing the frame bottle for a standard bottle mount or jamming a bottle of perform into your tri-jersey's mini pocket.

morpheus

Talking about 140.6 here.

This is my first IM where I 'couldn't' use the behind-the-seat option. Last 2 big races were aerobar (horizontal), aero bottle on downtube, and a single behind-the-seat bottle. The aerobottle on the frame was rigged to hold my flat kit/mini tool. That gave me the advantage of the aerobottle (for luggage) and the luxury of 2 standard bottles for nutrition.

But, this is my first big race on this bike, this seatpost. As it is, I think that I'm going to keep my very small seat pack with my repair stuff, same aerobar setup and change the downtube cage to a standard.

I doubt that it'll cost me a podium spot. I think that the peace of mind of reloading nutrition on the go outweighs the 1 minute or so that an aerobottle saves me over 5:45-6:15.

Tho, I am still looking for a mount that'll work with this post/seat.

kwuttig

I was getting caught up in all the nutrition and bike set up untill I talked to a kona veteran. He said "I just take what is on the course, and why hang all that crap on your aero bike". I just had a water bottle cage held in place between aero bars, water bottle had 275 calories in it, spare tire in back pocket of my jersey which I tossed on the run, and 5 gu in a small aero "bento" box, and one 6 oz gel bottle hanging around my neck tucked into my jersey which I pitched at and aid station. Two cartridges zip tied under my saddle. My old felt b14 set up was clean and aero with a disk cover on the real wheel. I smoked many p5's on the downhills topping out at 45 mph following the EN way. Finished 3rd in my age group following the EN way. My suggestion, minimize. Oh yeah. Latex tubes and corsa tires....

morpheus

Klaus, there are few bikes out there that have less on them than mine! I probably fall into the 'Not Enough Crap On The Bike' category. So, my impression is that you would vote for the standard bottle on the downtube as opposed to the aero bottle, right? To 'use what is on the course'. Finish a bottle, grab a bottle. Tho, I do need to have 2 bottles on board cuz I gotz to drink lotz! And most bike aid stations are farther apart than 1 bottle goes for me.

Pretty sure I'm going this route unless someone pipes up and says that the aero difference with the bontrager (or Specialized or Arundel) speed bottle is really big.

Thanks!

kwuttig

Chris. Sorry about the delay. My work computer is blocked and the only way it can interface with EN is on my phone - pain. Go with standard. My bike was 4 lbs lighter because I wasn't starting with 72 oz of fluids and 12 GUs tucked everywhere. Have fun at your race.

mgraffeo

Chris, nobody will have that data for your bike with you on it, so stop agonizing over it and call it done :-)

Seriously, if you want to know for sure, download Golden Cheetah and do some Chung protocol CdA tests, with both setups. I'm guessing it would be very, very minimal difference.

morpheus

Agreed, thanks all!

Nemo Brauch

I think that the peace of mind of reloading nutrition on the go outweighs the 1 minute or so that an aerobottle saves me over 5:45-6:15.

There is your answer.

I have the same situation. I'm no where near KQ or Podium. In fact, this year just making the cut-off will be my goal. But I've ditched the Arundle Aerobottle in favor of being able to simply use what is on the course and not have any concerns about dropping the bottle (and losing the only thing that will fit in that cage) or missing the second bottle in my SNB.

Now my only concern is the size of those Perform bottles. I've never seen one in person and my frame is so tight it will only hold the shortie (20oz) bottles. So I'm not sure if the Perform bottles will fit.

morpheus

Thx Nemo. And, you can rest ez on your issue, too (as you saw in the other thread!)

Brad Marcus

To continue this...I am not racing Full distance this season, but have 2 HIMs on the schedule, so a bit different, but I was think this: Do I pre-load the bike with enough fluids for my 56 mile bike and have the bike weigh more OR start with one bottle (or speedfill) on bike and slow down at aid stations to reload? In the HIM distance, I'm thinking time saved by preloading bike since weight involved wins over time lost slowing to pickup more fluids. Make sense?

Paul Hough

@ Brad - Both my race bikes are set up for a 2 bottle behind the seat mount, and either a bottle or Torhans up front. One bottle position behind the seat is reserved for my tool bottle. So effectively, I only have two bottle positions for hydration and take from the course. Whether I start with 1 or 2 depends on how hot it is, how hilly it is, and the aid station locations. E.g.,

1. The hotter the race, the more likely I will start with both.
2. The hillier the race, the more likely I will start with just one.
3. The further the distance from T1 to the first aid station will determine whether I go with one or two.

Doesn't make much of a difference between HIM and IM because you shouldn't be hammering up to the 1st aid station in either.

morpheus

@ Brad - I've evolved (for better or for worse) to carrying as little as possible. I try to find out what is served on the course, train with it, know how much I gotta drink, and take a leap of faith that the RD is telling the truth about where the aid stations are (this one can get ya way too often).

Everywhere I race is hot & humid so I shoot for 1.5 to 2 bottles per hour. So, 4-5 bottles per HIM bike leg. That would have me thinking that 2 bottles on the bike would be enough. Reloading every empty bottle ASAP cuz you never know when an aid station or volunteer staff mysteriously disappears.

As for the Speedfil, if I can't fill it on the fly, then it becomes my backup drink, my second of two bottles, the 'just in case I finish my standard bottle and I'm in between aid stations', not interested in taking the time to pull over and fill it up, except if something freaky happened out there.

Cary Blanco

Chris

I PM'd you on using the rear cage for the specialized transition, but I don't use that in 70.3 or 140.6, only in training. I keep spare tubes under my seat on race day.

For "racing" I use an aerobar horizontal mount filled with water and a downtube mount with sports drink. And I swap both bottles out at aid stations. You do not need to carry more than two bottles with you as there are aid stations every 10 miles or so.

The water is mostly for pouring on my head, body and arm coolers, and rinsing my hands free of GU but I do sip from time to time. I try to take a whole bottle of Perform or whatever sports drink is on course between aid stations.

morpheus

Thanks, Cary.

But, I like your setup because...

I want 2 regular bottle for on-course reloads. And I want to carry my spare kit.

If I rig that behind the seat bottle like you did, then I have one horizontal regular on the aerobars and one behind the seat.

That allows me to keep my aero downtube bottle which I rigged up to allow me to get in and out of it with my flat kit/minitool.

Therefore, I get my two bottles fluid convenience and the perks, tho maybe small, of the aerobottle, and no added weight cuz now I don't have to put the repair kit in a behind the seat bag.


Thanks, and again, I can't believe I listened to those who said I could rig a cage back there. Really appreciate those pics.