Dream Zipp Wheel combo
Without divulging too much super-secret information, I have the ability to buy ONE Zipp wheelset (2 wheels) at pro prices. Sorry all, this is JUST for me!
Out of these possibilities, what would you get, if anything?!?
404 Clincher or Tubular set (2008 hubs, smooth rims), pair at $800. I can mix w/ a 808 rear clincher, for $800 pair.
808 Clincher (no Tubular available) set (2008 hubs, smooth rims), pair at $800. I can mix w/ a 404 front clincher, for $800 pair.
900 Clincher or Tubular, at $800. I'm guessing I will be able to mix-and-match a 404/808 front with this, for $800 pair.
Sub-9 Tubular, at $800. I'm guessing I will be able to mix-and-match a 404/808 front with this, for $800 pair.
I have a Kuota Kalibur Tri Bike with an Ergomo PM, Specialized Tarmac Pro Road bike with an Ergomo PM and 700c wheelsets on both. I already own a set of Xentis quad-spoke tubular carbon racing wheels.
I'm 6'1" and about 200lbs (most of the time).
Comments
I think the 808 combo (808 rear/ 404 front) provides one the most flexibility to run them on just about any course and conditions.
If it was me, I'd probably go with the 808 clinchers.
But you can't go wrong with the 404 front and 808 rear.
Mike
I like the 808/900 setup personally, but than you may need another rear wheel if you ever decide to do a race where discs are not allowed.
Another thing to think about - 404s and 808s are pretty readily available at decent prices (not nearly as good as your price though), however I very rarely see a 900 disk discounted and there are far less available used.
Vince
I rode Reynolds DV-Clinchers for a long time, like over 2 years IIRC, and these are so much more "comfortable". At 168 lbs I think they're handleable in a mild/moderate crosswind, at 200 you're probably fine. I'm assuming you can hold a line on your tri bike regardless of wheels with some cross wind, if you can't then go 404.
@Mancona, I forgot about the wheel covers! Brilliant!
Getting a 404/808 combo, with a wheel cover (from Wheelbuilder), would allow for various race situations - and CHEAPLY!
Thanks all!
I got my wheel cover last week too, put that on this weekend and did a Sunday 50 miler, and a 32 miler last night with it. I gotta say, it's pretty cool. Hardly anyone knows, at speed, that it's not a real disc.
I will say though, I messed up on the EN sticker placement. I put it on the non-drive side. Which means that only people passing me will be able to see it. It should have been on the drive side, where people I pass will be able to see it.
I could probably con Rich into shipping me another one, for the other side, and I'll be advertising on both sides of my bike to be safe! ;-)
My current favorite setup is challenge latex tubes, with a Vittoria Open CX 320s 23 in back, 20 up front. I do have a set of 21 Tangentes I'm trying out as well and they seem awesome as well but I haven't decided to switch to them yet.
What are the Zipp warranty issues?
That's what I have & love. Sub9/808 tubie. Even with the possibility of a non-disc race (read:kona only), you're better off ALWAYS with a disc in the back. If you get to Kona, just rent an 808 rear.
Even though I live in Chicago, I'd love to get my hands on a 1080 front, maybe pick up a cheap 404 for crazy windy days.
At my 175lbs, the 808 isn't that bad too handle even on the windiest of days.
Some will argue, but I think tubies are the way to go, especially for long course.
More comfortable, can roll flat, easier to change.
Easier to change?
Aside from the new Zipp Firecrest carbon clinchers, it's usually pretty tough to get a tight race clincher on a rim using only your thumbs.
It usually takes me some finagling with tire levers and maybe even a bead jack. And you have to hope you don't pinch your tube. To match the rolling resistance of tubulars, you need to be using latex tubes anyhow, which are expensive. They also don't hold c02 well at all, so your flat kit has to be a butyl tube.
With tubulars, you give a can of PitStop a shot, and that usually does the trick. If not, you take a razor, slice your tire, rip it off, and throw on a pre-stretched/pre-glued tubular, good to go.
Maybe i am weak but it took me about 15 minutes using every tool i had to get a properly glued tubbie off of my 404's. I can change a tire on my 808 clinchers pretty quick. Luckily i have never had a chance to see how fast in a race.
Man I have to start hanging out at the bars you are at. Sounds like some fun constructive activity to pair w/ my beers.
Ok to be honest, I have never actually cut through a tubular glued up to a race wheel. I have cut through an old shot tubular with a small straight edge blade and didn't have any troubles. Took a bit of sawing for sure, but nothing terrible. I'd wager it's a bit of a different story on race day when you are freaked out & trying not to slice open your race wheels as well.
On a typical properly glued tubular (I glue my own, they are done proper), it usually takes me about 10 minutes of rocking the tire back/forth & thoroughly trashing my thumbs to get the tire moving, but once it's moving, it rips right off. So via some sort of transitive property, I assume that the razor blade can/will eliminate the thumb torture & takes you right to the ripping stage. Key word there = Assume.
For anything under a 70.3, I don't bother with flat kit. 70.3 & longer I have spare tubie, c02, & pitstop. Never had to use it, knock on wood.
The Sub9 disc is far more comfortable than any disc I have ever ridden, and only comes in tubular. That made my decision for me. I would be open to the new Zipp carbon clinchers if I were in the market, as I hear the rim bed is more forgiving than traditional, but I'm sticking with what I have for now. I also haven't traveled far from home to race, my philosophy might change if I did, as re-gluing on the fly doesn't quite work. I also admittedly suck at changing clinchers. Even in my workshop with a bead jack tool, I have a hard time.
I have seen all the tests, data, yada, yada & it this point it really seems like it's a wash clincher/tubie. With the right tire/tube combo, clinchers are about neck & neck with a properly glued tubie, and we all know they aren't often properly glued.
Chicken or egg.
Been racing with them for 3 years now and have had two flats. One was during a race and the other was a time trial test run in race mode.
70.3 Racine - flatted a few miles out of transition on the awesome Racine roads. Pit stopped it and was back riding in 3 minutes. I was able to recover those 3 minutes pretty easily and still had a PR day.
Time trial - hit a rock that tore the rear tire and I had to change. I mount my own tubulars and I always leave a 1/4 inch section with only a light coat of glue opposite the valve stem. Using this method, you can easily get a tire iron in there if need be to separate the glue. Use the razor blade method as well and just cut opposite the valve stem. Rip that sucker right off, put on a pre-stretched tire and fill it up - it's literally that quick. I was changing a nice even controlled pace and was back in business in about 7 minutes but I'm sure I could have done it in 5. Had I hit that rock in my clincher it would have done the same damage to my tire and I would have had to take the time to patch the tire as a new tube would have exploded through the hole. It would have taken me a lot longer to get a dollar bill out of my wallet and change the tube
I agree that tubulars are the way to go on race day. I also think you can find better deals on used sets because the demand is not a great because of the 'fear' factor involved.
What are people using for tubes and valve extenders with 808 depth wheels? I have heard good things about the Tufo valve extenders, but how do you know which tubes out there have removable valve cores?
OK thanks Matt. What total length do I need as far as valve extension? If an 808 has an 81mm depth, do I need 100mm of valve + extender to be able to pump them up?
Also what about brake pads for a clincher? Zipp carbon/carbon or is there another option out there? The bike will have other aluminum wheels some days as well as the Zipps.
I stick with the standard brake pads and they work fine with Zipp clinchers. For carbon clinchers or tubies you need different brake pads.
OK 100 is what I was thinking.
I am sticking with the standard 808 since the 808CC hasn't been approved yet for a PT hub, so I will keep my standard pads.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the tip Ken. 808 clinchers have an aluminum braking surface.