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Dream Zipp Wheel combo

Without divulging too much super-secret information, I have the ability to buy ONE Zipp wheelset (2 wheels) at pro prices. Sorry all, this is JUST for me!

Out of these possibilities, what would you get, if anything?!?

404 Clincher or Tubular set (2008 hubs, smooth rims), pair at $800. I can mix w/ a 808 rear clincher, for $800 pair.

808 Clincher (no Tubular available) set (2008 hubs, smooth rims), pair at $800. I can mix w/ a 404 front clincher, for $800 pair.

900 Clincher or Tubular, at $800. I'm guessing I will be able to mix-and-match a 404/808 front with this, for $800 pair.

Sub-9 Tubular, at $800. I'm guessing I will be able to mix-and-match a 404/808 front with this, for $800 pair.

I have a Kuota Kalibur Tri Bike with an Ergomo PM, Specialized Tarmac Pro Road bike with an Ergomo PM and 700c wheelsets on both. I already own a set of Xentis quad-spoke tubular carbon racing wheels.

I'm 6'1" and about 200lbs (most of the time).

Comments

  • my 2 cents....
    I think the 808 combo (808 rear/ 404 front) provides one the most flexibility to run them on just about any course and conditions.
  • If it was me, I'd probably go with the 808 clinchers.

    But you can't go wrong with the 404 front and 808 rear.

    Mike

  • I bought 808 combo so I can use powertap in rear (without any Zipp warranty issues) and also wheelcover when conditions suit - I guess the 606 pair (404/808) is the most versatile but you'd then miss the front aero benefits of the 808, plus you a big guy so shouldn't 'lose' the front much.
  • If you want one wheel set you can use for everything ... go 404/808 with a wheel cover.

    I like the 808/900 setup personally, but than you may need another rear wheel if you ever decide to do a race where discs are not allowed.

    Another thing to think about - 404s and 808s are pretty readily available at decent prices (not nearly as good as your price though), however I very rarely see a 900 disk discounted and there are far less available used.

  • 808 combo clinchers is my vote and I'd put them on my roadbike as the Zentis wheelset is pretty good according to what I've read.

    Vince

  • My vote is for the wheelset I already own: Sub-9 and 1080. Why not get the fastest possible set-up?
  • I rode my 808 tubulars this past weekend for the first time and all I can say is Wow. In a word: transformational.

    I rode Reynolds DV-Clinchers for a long time, like over 2 years IIRC, and these are so much more "comfortable". At 168 lbs I think they're handleable in a mild/moderate crosswind, at 200 you're probably fine. I'm assuming you can hold a line on your tri bike regardless of wheels with some cross wind, if you can't then go 404.
  • @Vince, I love my Xentis, but I always worry about changing tubbies while in a race. I'm not a fast tubbie tire changer for sure! (say that 3x fast)

    @Mancona, I forgot about the wheel covers! Brilliant!

    Getting a 404/808 combo, with a wheel cover (from Wheelbuilder), would allow for various race situations - and CHEAPLY!

    Thanks all!
  • I got my 404/808 combo several weeks ago. Put some Continental gatorskins on them and they seem to be pretty bulletproof. Been riding on them a LOT.

    I got my wheel cover last week too, put that on this weekend and did a Sunday 50 miler, and a 32 miler last night with it. I gotta say, it's pretty cool. Hardly anyone knows, at speed, that it's not a real disc.

    I will say though, I messed up on the EN sticker placement. I put it on the non-drive side. Which means that only people passing me will be able to see it. It should have been on the drive side, where people I pass will be able to see it.

    I could probably con Rich into shipping me another one, for the other side, and I'll be advertising on both sides of my bike to be safe! ;-)
  • I have no dog in this hunt, but I just want to say what everyone else is thinking: "Scott, I hate you!" image All kidding aside, that's a fabulous deal whatever you get.
  • Scott, I love the gatorskins for training tires, but hate them for racing as they roll like you are riding on rocks. Train on the gatorskins all season and then treat yourself to a nice set of race tires for your last race simulation through A race.

    My current favorite setup is challenge latex tubes, with a Vittoria Open CX 320s 23 in back, 20 up front. I do have a set of 21 Tangentes I'm trying out as well and they seem awesome as well but I haven't decided to switch to them yet.
  • Posted By David Flint on 25 Feb 2010 11:20 AM

    I bought 808 combo so I can use powertap in rear (without any Zipp warranty issues) and also wheelcover when conditions suit - I guess the 606 pair (404/808) is the most versatile but you'd then miss the front aero benefits of the 808, plus you a big guy so shouldn't 'lose' the front much.

    What are the Zipp warranty issues?  

  • @Chris - 808 is the deepest wheel that Zip will let you run a PT hub in. On a 1080 the spokes are too short with the high flange of the PT hub and they will not warranty a 1080 wheel it it was laced to a PT hub.
  • Sub 9 and 808 tubies.
  • That's what I have & love.  Sub9/808 tubie.  Even with the possibility of a non-disc race (read:kona only), you're better off ALWAYS with a disc in the back.  If you get to Kona, just rent an 808 rear.

    Even though I live in Chicago, I'd love to get my hands on a 1080 front, maybe pick up a cheap 404 for crazy windy days.

    At my 175lbs, the 808 isn't that bad too handle even on the windiest of days.

    Some will argue, but I think tubies are the way to go, especially for long course. 

    More comfortable, can roll flat, easier to change. 

  • Posted By Ed Gross on 05 Nov 2010 01:42 PM

    That's what I have & love.  Sub9/808 tubie.  Even with the possibility of a non-disc race (read:kona only), you're better off ALWAYS with a disc in the back.  If you get to Kona, just rent an 808 rear.

    Even though I live in Chicago, I'd love to get my hands on a 1080 front, maybe pick up a cheap 404 for crazy windy days.

    At my 175lbs, the 808 isn't that bad too handle even on the windiest of days.

    Some will argue, but I think tubies are the way to go, especially for long course. 

    More comfortable, can roll flat, easier to change. 

    Easier to change?

     


    Posted By Matt Ancona on 05 Nov 2010 09:18 AM 

    @Chris - 808 is the deepest wheel that Zip will let you run a PT hub in. On a 1080 the spokes are too short with the high flange of the PT hub and they will not warranty a 1080 wheel it it was laced to a PT hub.
    OK thanks.  I wonder why Wheelbuilder still offers to build them.

  • Aside from the new Zipp Firecrest carbon clinchers, it's usually pretty tough to get a tight race clincher on a rim using only your thumbs.

    It usually takes me some finagling with tire levers and maybe even a bead jack.  And you have to hope you don't pinch your tube.  To match the rolling resistance of tubulars, you need to be using latex tubes anyhow, which are expensive.  They also don't hold c02 well at all, so your flat kit has to be a butyl tube.

    With tubulars, you give a can of PitStop a shot, and that usually does the trick.  If not, you take a razor, slice your tire, rip it off, and throw on a pre-stretched/pre-glued tubular, good to go.

  • @ed - have you ever actually tried to "just cut through" a tire with a razor blade? I cant do it even if the tire si not on a rim. I have been challenging people on st to post a video of someone actually doing it for years and have had no takers. I could not even cut through one using the big exacto knife on my workbench. I have brought tubbies and a new blade to the bar and asked people to cut it for me. Takes a long time to saw through it using a table for leverage.

    Maybe i am weak but it took me about 15 minutes using every tool i had to get a properly glued tubbie off of my 404's. I can change a tire on my 808 clinchers pretty quick. Luckily i have never had a chance to see how fast in a race.

  • Man I have to start hanging out at the bars you are at.  Sounds like some fun constructive activity to pair w/ my beers.

    Ok to be honest, I have never actually cut through a tubular glued up to a race wheel.  I have cut through an old shot tubular with a small straight edge blade and didn't have any troubles.  Took a bit of sawing for sure, but nothing terrible.  I'd wager it's a bit of a different story on race day when you are freaked out & trying not to slice open your race wheels as well.  

    On a typical properly glued tubular (I glue my own, they are done proper), it usually takes me about 10 minutes of rocking the tire back/forth & thoroughly trashing my thumbs to get the tire moving, but once it's moving, it rips right off.  So via some sort of transitive property, I assume that the razor blade can/will eliminate the thumb torture & takes you right to the ripping stage.  Key word there = Assume.  

    For anything under a 70.3, I don't bother with flat kit.  70.3 & longer I have spare tubie, c02, & pitstop.  Never had to use it, knock on wood.

    The Sub9 disc is far more comfortable than any disc I have ever ridden, and only comes in tubular.  That made my decision for me.  I would be open to the new Zipp carbon clinchers if I were in the market, as I hear the rim bed is more forgiving than traditional, but I'm sticking with what I have for now.  I also haven't traveled far from home to race, my philosophy might change if I did, as re-gluing on the fly doesn't quite work.  I also admittedly suck at changing clinchers.  Even in my workshop with a bead jack tool, I have a hard time. 

    I have seen all the tests, data, yada, yada & it this point it really seems like it's a wash clincher/tubie.  With the right tire/tube combo, clinchers are about neck & neck with a properly glued tubie, and we all know they aren't often properly glued.  

    Chicken or egg.

  • Okay, I'll chime in on the tubular front -

    Been racing with them for 3 years now and have had two flats. One was during a race and the other was a time trial test run in race mode.

    70.3 Racine - flatted a few miles out of transition on the awesome Racine roads. Pit stopped it and was back riding in 3 minutes. I was able to recover those 3 minutes pretty easily and still had a PR day.

    Time trial - hit a rock that tore the rear tire and I had to change. I mount my own tubulars and I always leave a 1/4 inch section with only a light coat of glue opposite the valve stem. Using this method, you can easily get a tire iron in there if need be to separate the glue. Use the razor blade method as well and just cut opposite the valve stem. Rip that sucker right off, put on a pre-stretched tire and fill it up - it's literally that quick. I was changing a nice even controlled pace and was back in business in about 7 minutes but I'm sure I could have done it in 5. Had I hit that rock in my clincher it would have done the same damage to my tire and I would have had to take the time to patch the tire as a new tube would have exploded through the hole. It would have taken me a lot longer to get a dollar bill out of my wallet and change the tube image As a result of the tire tear, I always carry a small patch kit when riding on clinchers.

    I agree that tubulars are the way to go on race day. I also think you can find better deals on used sets because the demand is not a great because of the 'fear' factor involved.
  •  What are people using for tubes and valve extenders with 808 depth wheels?  I have heard good things about the Tufo valve extenders, but how do you know which tubes out there have removable valve cores?  

  • @Chris - Challenge Latex tubes have removabel cores and work great. Zipp also now has there own latex tubes with removable cores out as well.
  • Posted By Matt Ancona on 09 Nov 2010 07:16 PM

    @Chris - Challenge Latex tubes have removabel cores and work great. Zipp also now has there own latex tubes with removable cores out as well.



    OK thanks Matt.  What total length do I need as far as valve extension?  If an 808 has an 81mm depth, do I need 100mm of valve + extender to be able to pump them up?  

    Also what about brake pads for a clincher?  Zipp carbon/carbon or is there another option out there?  The bike will have other aluminum wheels some days as well as the Zipps.  

  • 20mm longer than the rim is ideal. I run the 60mm challenge tubes with a 40mm extender on an 808.

    I stick with the standard brake pads and they work fine with Zipp clinchers. For carbon clinchers or tubies you need different brake pads.
  •  OK 100 is what I was thinking.  

    I am sticking with the standard 808 since the 808CC hasn't been approved yet for a PT hub, so I will keep my standard pads.

    Thanks again.  

  • If your brake surface is carbon, you should use brake pads exclusively for that type of surface. If they are aluminum, then the standard brake pads like Matt said. HOWEVER, do not mix and match these with your wheelset. Over time, metal shards (unlike the 2000 election shards) can imbed in the standard brake pad and scratch/damage the carbon brake surface. Also heat is a consideration as well.

  •  Thanks for the tip Ken.  808 clinchers have an aluminum braking surface.  

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