How should FOP folks pace the HIM run?
As I start trying to keep up with the FOP folks, I'm curious how to pace in order to *race*. I had the run of my life in Vineman (1:35:20), but I'm wondering if any WSMs can help me understand if left any speed out on the course, and if so, how I can pace to get those minutes back in the future.
Measurables:
- vdot 52: Z2/MP 7:02
- temps: low 80s, reached run course 12pm-2pm (last wave, 8:40am...)
- Bike: NP 219, TSS 189, IF .83, VI 1.00, HR 142
I took it easy the first 3-4 miles, covering most of the hills and being worried about the heat. My splits:
| Mile | Pace |
| 1 | 7:53 |
| 2 | 7:40 |
| 3 | 7:43 |
| 4 | 7:49 |
| 5 | 7:20 |
| 6 | 6:57 |
| 7 | 6:55 |
| 8 | 7:21 |
| 9 | 7:12 |
| 10 | 7:18 |
| 11 | 6:54 |
| 12 | 6:56 |
| 13 | 6:11 |
| TOTAL | 1:35:20 (7:16/mile) |
Given that my last mile was faster than my Z4/IP, I feel like I had too much gas in the tank... could I have paced more aggressively to yield a better overall result?
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Comments
I'm not sure I would run "easy" for the first 3-4 miles. Rather, I would run a tick below the RPE that I know I'll dial in after that first 3 miles.
What happened at mile 7-9? I did Vineman ages ago and don't remember the run course very well.
On a flat run course, like Oceanside, if I my goal was to run 7:15's, I'd probably:
For what it's worth, I think Rich is closer than you are/were; I think your first couple miles didn't have to be that slow. I ran my first couple miles a bit too fast at KS, which was a mistake, but I don't think it hurt my net time too much...so perhaps do as I say more than as I do. :-) I think the key is to couple both RPE and actual pace for the first 2-3 miles. The first 1/2 mile is throw-away as you get out and get your legs back, but keep an eye on things. After that, it's "run easy" for the first 2-3 miles. My mistake was running easy for 2 miles without looking at my Garmin...I had been concerned the other way if I saw how slow I was going...that I would want to speed up....this was a silly error that I won't repeat. But I will still let the first half-mile go. :-)
For me at this distance, anything at or just a little slower than MP feels very easy for the first 3 miles (again, neglecting hills and excessive heat)...then, basically I am with Rich. I did not turn on the afterburners for my last couple of miles at KS because I wasn't close enough to anyone in my AG in front of me and I was planning to run a marathon two weeks later...but I was in the place Rich describes, but just held steady instead of totally drilling myself if you go look up my RR.
One thing to recognize is that you might have left 1 minute on the table from going too slow at the beginning. If you really blow it from going too fast, you might leave 5 minutes on the table from slowing down at the end...so don't get too carried away. :-)
Since many courses do NOT have flat terrain, it is very important to have a very good ingrained sense of the correlation between RPE and "flat land pace" to make this work. That sense is best honed during workouts and stand alone running races, IMO. Then, the RPE @ the start would be like your LRP RPE, progressing thru MP to HIM, 10k, finally 5K at the end. All the time, the pace stays the same, until mile 12, then you spend everything you have left and hopefully go a little faster.
Using this method, you * might* have gone a minute or two faster ... Two - three minutes faster in the first few miles, then a minute slower in the final mile.
Thanks for the help guys, this is a big help and definitely something I'll incorporate into my half at the end of the season, which has a very flat run.
Rich, miles 7-9 were slightly hilly and included a section where you're running through a narrow, dusty vineyard where you have to go off-road to pass people. Part of the slow down may have been a break in concentration due to terrain and some coke burping issues.
I should have mentioned that the first 4 miles contain most of the hills, although it's a reasonably flat course, so probably only added 15 sec per mile.
The reason I ask is that a 5km determined Vdot might suggest a (in your case) a slightly slower MP compared to a Vdot from a longer race - and if this was the case, you could race the HIM run a little faster than MP determined from a 5 km.
Matt - thanks for your thoughts! Fear definitley played a role - I'm primarily an IM guy and I think that mentality is so ingrained that it translates to all my racing, which is part of the reason I place better in longer races. Given that I don't run many standalone footraces, I've never run a 1:30 half marathon, so it's a bit scary to think of doing one off the bike in the heat. I'm used to facing my demons at mile 18, not mile 2.
Peter - I haven't confirmed my vdot in months, so I guess that's part of the problem of racing a B/C race. One question I have is about how to pace races based on vdot. Should I use my 5k or (likely older) HM vdot? Should I subtract points from my vdot as I've read from some people, given that I'm doing it off the bike, or is it enough to just add the 30" on teh front end?
Thank you all, I know experimentation is the best method, but we race too rarely to have that be our primary way to get smarter.
The VDOT for race equivalence assumes that you are equally well trained for the two distances. In other words, just because you can rip out a 19:30 5K doesn't mean you can whip out a 90 min half marathon the next weekend. Many (if not most) "just runners" who are at our ability level can't quite do a half or a full marathon at the pace predicted by their 5K vdot, which is to say that they aren't quite well enough trained up, if you are to take the model seriously. For a half, many race about 1 point short of 5K, and for a full, many race 1.5-2.5 points short of the 5K VDOT.
The bottom line is that the closer to the "test" distance your "control VDOT" is measured at, the better the results will be.
For what it's worth, I really like the general plan of running a hard half marathon shortly after the OS. I know not everyone buys this because running a hard half will mean that you are just "recovering" until the next weekend. However, there's nothing like it for setting the Truth Bar about how far your winter running has gotten you, and preparing you for racing, ESPECIALLY for the HIM distance, where you are actually racing the run. (I will also confess that I haven't done this every year, but my best races have tended to follow in years that I have.) :-)
The MP derived from a good, hard half marathon should be a very good target pace for a HIM race coming up in the 2-3 months following. Using that standard, a 90 min open half marathon (VDOT 51) predicts a 3:08 marathon or a 94 min HIM half marathon.
I just think the HM gives you a more precise target, and I also think that the last few miles of running a hard half marathon are good mental prep for the last few miles of a HIM.
If the last few miles of a half marathon aren't hard, you didn't run it hard enough. :-)
All that said, we are not talking about you having left a WHOLE lot of time on the table here...but a minute or two CAN mean several places, which CAN be the difference between qualifying for 70.3 championships or not.
During-EN I see the value in what Rich is saying for long course events. During the last open 13.1 I did, I was about 30 seconds off 1:25 pace for the first 4. I made it all back and then some on the final 3 to finish with a 1:24:30
I think it's worth experimenting to find what works best for you.
The Pete Pfitzinger book "Advanced Marathoning" (granted, this is about marathons not triathlons) suggests that for non-elite athletes even splits are good but a slight positive split is probably better. I won't go into the details but it has to do with your body recruiting less-efficient fast-twitch muscle fibers as slow-twitch fibers fatigue later in the race...i.e. running economy and LT pace - and therefore your optimal race pace - decreases slightly over the course of the race. So if you run a negative split race then it's pretty likely you ran more slowly than was optimal in the first half. He asserts that for elite athletes a combination of genetics and training put them in a different position -- they have lower tendancy to recruit less-efficieny muscle fibers as the race progresses, and they can accumulate lactate for a long period of time over the final miles of the race. When you look the world record marathon times they are all technically negative splits, but by mere seconds.