Far vs Fast or Fast vs Far

new2703

This question is more relevant for the OS.  Is there ever a time you transition back to a far before fast approach to training?  As a relative newbie to triathlons, 20 year layoff, part of me feels like I need to work on far or some base endurance.before returning to another round of FTP work. Because I essentially came from the couch to the bike, I have no years of constant riding to help build a base.   I'm not talking about 3-4 hour trainer rides but rather EF (Friel approach) type training.  Where you look for your efficiency factor to improve and level off before progressing to a more EN approach to the OS.  So for someone like me would i benefit from some far before fast-far?

Al Truscott

Its a long time EN practice to intersperse some "far" biking during "fast" training when one is not specifically training for an HIM or IM. The simplest way is to do a Big Bike Week (see wiki for example) after a 3month OS stretch or a2 month Get Faster or Short Course stretch. Other ways to integrate this are via "having fun with your fitness", like going on a multi day bike tour with friends or a commercial company.

I don't know that a specific, riigidly planned program is necessary for using this as a route to improvement. IMO the two key principles are switching up training focus every 2-4 months, and maintaining a consistency over time, meaning YEARS.

I believe this sort of stuff is a key reason I was able to move from MOP to FOP in my AG over time. EG, i bike commuted to works, did annual multi day bike trips, enjoyed myself mountain biking, etc, not from any pre-determined plan, but just from doing things I found interesting.

VARIETY AND CONSISTENCY. Do SOMEthing every day, but not the SAME thing every day. Applies over weeks and months and years as well as days.

new2703

@ Al. Thanks for the response and totally agree that consistency over time is one of keys to success. When looking at training everything is really just periodization. Friels EF really is just a way to determine when to go onto the next phase of training. I just wonder if I'm better off doing something like EF training prior to starting OS training. I may just experiment especially since next years IM will be late in summer/ early fall. I did and do something similar with running. I run with HR until HR and Easy pace are similar or pace is faster at same HR. just think it allows for better transition to FTP work

MattAaronson

Personally I have never done any "base training" or "far" before getting back to fast. My MO has been to take Sep-Dec as unstructured and very low volume, then to star thte OS with all of its intensity. That said, I know some people, including EN-ers, who have done some serious base training, esp running, in advance of the OS and seen good results. For example Ed Gross (former EN teammate) did this a couple of winters ago. He was a very weak runner compared with his bike (and still is, truthfully), but saw good improvements. Given your running fitness is strong I suspect you're asking this about the bike, and it sure is how seriously cyclists would approach "OS" training (quotes intended given "OS" is an EN construct).

Peter Greagg

For most people, 4 to 8 weeks is how long their bodies take to adapt to any new training load.
As a consequence, to continue to improve, you must change the training stimulus — which is one reason we test so often to ensure we increase our training loads while we are improving.
As Al points out it has been standard EN policy to change the training stimulus on the bike by doing a BBW. I am sure I read a post from Coach P where he talked about doing a BBW after the OS, and then went back to more OS type intervals to try and push up his FTP some more.
My IM is late in the season so I will be doing the OS, then BBW, then Get Faster, then BBW, then HIM (8 weeks), then BW, and then 8 weeks of IM.

Coach Rich

John,
Awesome to see you posting questions like this in the forum vs the dashboard. Keep it up! :-)

atasic

@John, this can be approached from theory and practice standpoint, both. 

It has been touched above by Al, Peter and Matt, I agree with all of it, body adapts to a type and amount of stimulus after a certain period, current science uses 6-8 week periods. After that, change in type of stimulus maybe needed. A simple way to know is to recognize a plateau when you reach one.

Big bike weeks and other a like activities are recognized at EN as such that can effectively serve as a change of stimulus and very much are soundly founded in theory above. I also, personally have found straight 6-8 week period of base training very effective, yes, traditional Friel way.....

Last Fall/ Winter, before returning to EN, I ran a 12 week period of run focus with avg weekly miles peaking and steady at 60mi/week. All Friel Z1 and Z2 running with strides here and there. At the same time, on the bike, I applied more OS type EN flavor just to maintain.

When I embarked on OS upon return, results were tremendous. In prior years I had difficult time recovering from that many hard workouts, 3 bikes, 3 runs......This time around, I was recovering well and completing a higher percentage of workouts as prescribed. I found new levels of fitness quickly once I applied the OS stimulus.

Many months later, second successive  time in SC Adv. plan, low volume, high intensity work and I do struggle now after so long, yes plateau is in place but rightfully so as I have been trying to go after SC type work for too long. Very low bike and run miles at high intensity made me faster than I ever was, but I cannot carry that over distance and I do not recover well from workouts now. So, after I close the triathlon shop Sept. 1, until Nov OS start, I will be doing base type work again, even the gym, 42 years old with weakening hip flexors, tight IT bands........aging and overuse therapy in place to regain for getting back into OS style of work.

So, there you have it, little personal experience with it.

cgres123

We are all Age Group athletes competing against others in our respective age group and more importantly against ourselves. At this stage of our life our muscle fibers are indentified as to what functions that they want to do as to making the body work. Slow twitch = high oxidative, fatigue resistant and fast twitch with a moderate to high anaerobic capacity.

So with time these muscles will adapt to the stresses placed on them.... in time, a long time, as we are older it will take a long time.
We want to train and race in the now not wait years for the adaption to occur. So I would suggest to benefit , in the now and later, work on both i.e. exactly what the OS does with regular testing you see the results. You could always push for a longer run and or bike once a week

new2703

Yes I want to train and race in the now but I am more focused on the big picture. I talk about Kona but realistically that is many years away so I'm not really worried about that. Currently when I race it's against myself in an attempt to reach goals that I have set for me each season. I view each season as a brick that is helping to build my IM house. With that thought process, I look to improve and for ways to improve each season.